Cylinder brass

Gos · October 26, 2010, 10:17 AM

Greetings,
Does anyone have a source for cylinder brass for the .223 / 5.56?
Thanks,
Gos

**Mike Irwin** · October 26, 2010, 10:45 AM

Not exactly sure what you mean by "cylinder brass."

**Unclenick** · October 26, 2010, 11:08 AM

I think he's looking for un-necked brass. Remington made it in .30-06 for a time, so wildcatters had something to work with. I've not seen it offered with a .223-size head, but then I haven't been looking.

zippy13 · October 26, 2010, 11:15 AM

Greetings Gos, and welcome aboard

Like Mike, I don't have a clue what you mean by "cylinder brass." What exactly are you looking for: new, once-fired, or ratty old range brass? GI or commercial? Processed and primed or not... ?

Thanks Unclenick: That sounds reasonable -- we typically don't get questions like that from first time posters.

Gos · October 26, 2010, 11:52 AM

Full length, no taper, no shoulder cartridge brass based on the .223 head. It's used for making wildcat rounds based on the .223. I've found it for the 30/06 but nothing for the 223 or 5.56.

zippy13 · October 26, 2010, 12:10 PM

Gos,
Have you asked any of the smaller brass makers about custom brass. It seems they could just pull some brass out early during of shaping process. Of course, things are never as simple as they seem. They would probably want you to purchase some huge minimum order.

**Mike Irwin** · October 26, 2010, 12:16 PM

Ah! Of course.

Sorry, but no, I don't know of any suppliers.

taylorce1 · October 26, 2010, 12:43 PM

Try Quality Cartridge don't know how much it will cost you but QC does make small runs of specialty brass. Probably have to order at least 500 to have them do it.

They made some properly headstamped for a guy I know who built a .338-223. It headspaces off of the case mouth. Pretty much duplicates a .30-30, as it launches 165 and 180 grain bullets with pretty much the same trajectory and velocity as the 150 and 170 grain .308's. Pretty cool rifle as it was suppressed as well.

Gos · October 26, 2010, 01:37 PM

I've not found one so far....

Gos · October 28, 2010, 02:30 PM

One would think there would be a market for cylinder brass with all the wildcats out there...

FrankenMauser · October 29, 2010, 02:21 AM

Quote:

One would think there would be a market for cylinder brass with all the wildcats out there...

There's barely a market for .30-06 cylinder brass. ...And most of that market is based solely around the .270 Win/.30-03 Spgfld/.280 Rem/.35 Whelen case length.

I think the lack of a manufacturer of 5.56/.223 brass is due to the super-abundance of once-fired and new brass on the market. What does it matter if case life is only 4 firings, if the case is worth more as scrap than what you paid for it? Add the fact that many wildcatters just use .222 Rem Mag brass... and there's not much demand for the cylinder variety.

F. Guffey · October 29, 2010, 09:56 PM

Chuck Hawks list R-P cylinder brass (straight wall cases) with 35 Whelen head stamps, the cases are 2.650 long and are perfect for forming cases, too late for me I have all the cases I will ever need.

F. Guffey

TXGunNut · October 29, 2010, 10:10 PM

Sounds like a great concept with a very small potential market, guess that makes it a marginal concept. BPCR folks have straight cases called "basic" to build cases from so it seems a straight case for a 5.56 cartridge head (and others) just makes sense for wildcatters. JMHO, of course.

F. Guffey · October 30, 2010, 06:50 AM

TXGUNNut, I never understood why new unprimed brass available for reloaders was sized to minimum length, I want a choice as to where to set the shoulder, in my opinion the 280 Remington case is the best case available, new and or once fired because of the .051 thousands forward shoulder , moving a shoulder back is sizing, moving the shoulder forward is a matter of firing the case in the chamber, I form first then fire.

As to the wildcat and the R-P cylinder brass, I form 280 Remington cases to 30/06 for one rifle that has .016 thousands head space, had I used cylinder brass it would have been a matter of using a forming die or full length sizer die to form the cases by creating a .014 thousands gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die.

Again, R-P cylinder brass cost $37.00 per 20 +/- a few.

From another forum:

fguffey
Member

Join Date: August 28, 2008
Posts: 540 Megs, manufactures of brass do mot make brass that does not fit the chamber, everything they make is sized to minimum dimensions, the target market is too small, with an exception, R-P makes cases called cylinder brass, a 30/06 type case with a straight wall that is 2.650 thousands long stamped 35 Whelen for about $35.00 for 20. Forming first then fire never caught on, for most it is easier to size first then fire to form.

F. Guffey

TXGunNut · October 30, 2010, 10:22 AM

I see your point, F. Guffey. I guess it goes along with the way they manufacture ammo. If they make them small, it fits them all. Very few shooters and even a minority of reloaders understand and work with headspace dimensions as well as you do. I'm fortunate that both of the 30-06's I'm hunting with are very close to minimum dimensions.
That cylinder brass is pretty pricey but can imagine that with the short production runs they actually don't make much on them. I don't guess any of the small brass mfrs are around any more, they may be able to do it and be profitable doing so.

cornbush · October 30, 2010, 11:03 PM

You could try GRAF

F. Guffey · October 31, 2010, 04:08 PM

http://www.z-hat.com/Cylinder.htm

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · October 31, 2010, 04:11 PM

http://www.z-hat.com/wildcatagory.htm

F. Guffey

Gos · August 7, 2011, 07:32 PM

Just checking back in case someone found a source for cylinder brass in .223.
Thanks,
Gos.

oneounceload · August 7, 2011, 07:57 PM

You could try calling Starline in MO - they actually make brass and might be able to accommodate you

Gos · August 7, 2011, 08:18 PM

Struck out on Starline too. They are big in the pistol case area, but not so much rifle...

FrankenMauser · August 7, 2011, 11:50 PM

Have you gotten a quote from Quality Cartridge? They'll run nearly anything you can think of.

Gos · August 22, 2011, 11:56 PM

Tried, but never returned my email

...
I need to call them when I can match their business hours.

Thanks for everyone who had a suggestion.

Gos

Jimro · August 23, 2011, 03:46 AM

Make your own. Anneal 223 brass, run it through a 7mm expander, 8mm expander, and finally 9mm expander and you should be set.

Jimro

FrankenMauser · August 23, 2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Tried, but never returned my email...
I need to call them when I can match their business hours.

They used to be really good about returning email requests. ...But seem to have been overwhelmed lately. Your best bet is to keep trying to call.

October 26, 2010, 10:17 AM	#1
Gos Member Join Date: October 26, 2010 Posts: 15	Cylinder brass Greetings, Does anyone have a source for cylinder brass for the .223 / 5.56? Thanks, Gos

October 26, 2010, 10:45 AM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	Not exactly sure what you mean by "cylinder brass." __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 26, 2010, 11:08 AM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	I think he's looking for un-necked brass. Remington made it in .30-06 for a time, so wildcatters had something to work with. I've not seen it offered with a .223-size head, but then I haven't been looking. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 26, 2010, 12:16 PM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	Ah! Of course. Sorry, but no, I don't know of any suppliers. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 29, 2010, 10:10 PM	#13
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	Sounds like a great concept with a very small potential market, guess that makes it a marginal concept. BPCR folks have straight cases called "basic" to build cases from so it seems a straight case for a 5.56 cartridge head (and others) just makes sense for wildcatters. JMHO, of course. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

October 26, 2010, 11:15 AM	#4
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Greetings Gos, and welcome aboard Like Mike, I don't have a clue what you mean by "cylinder brass." What exactly are you looking for: new, once-fired, or ratty old range brass? GI or commercial? Processed and primed or not... ? Thanks Unclenick: That sounds reasonable -- we typically don't get questions like that from first time posters.

October 26, 2010, 11:52 AM	#5
Gos Member Join Date: October 26, 2010 Posts: 15	Full length, no taper, no shoulder cartridge brass based on the .223 head. It's used for making wildcat rounds based on the .223. I've found it for the 30/06 but nothing for the 223 or 5.56.

October 26, 2010, 12:10 PM	#6
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Gos, Have you asked any of the smaller brass makers about custom brass. It seems they could just pull some brass out early during of shaping process. Of course, things are never as simple as they seem. They would probably want you to purchase some huge minimum order.

October 26, 2010, 12:43 PM	#8
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	Try Quality Cartridge don't know how much it will cost you but QC does make small runs of specialty brass. Probably have to order at least 500 to have them do it. They made some properly headstamped for a guy I know who built a .338-223. It headspaces off of the case mouth. Pretty much duplicates a .30-30, as it launches 165 and 180 grain bullets with pretty much the same trajectory and velocity as the 150 and 170 grain .308's. Pretty cool rifle as it was suppressed as well.

October 26, 2010, 01:37 PM	#9
Gos Member Join Date: October 26, 2010 Posts: 15	I've not found one so far....

October 28, 2010, 02:30 PM	#10
Gos Member Join Date: October 26, 2010 Posts: 15	One would think there would be a market for cylinder brass with all the wildcats out there...

October 29, 2010, 09:56 PM	#12
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Chuck Hawks list R-P cylinder brass (straight wall cases) with 35 Whelen head stamps, the cases are 2.650 long and are perfect for forming cases, too late for me I have all the cases I will ever need. F. Guffey

October 30, 2010, 06:50 AM	#14
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	TXGUNNut, I never understood why new unprimed brass available for reloaders was sized to minimum length, I want a choice as to where to set the shoulder, in my opinion the 280 Remington case is the best case available, new and or once fired because of the .051 thousands forward shoulder , moving a shoulder back is sizing, moving the shoulder forward is a matter of firing the case in the chamber, I form first then fire. As to the wildcat and the R-P cylinder brass, I form 280 Remington cases to 30/06 for one rifle that has .016 thousands head space, had I used cylinder brass it would have been a matter of using a forming die or full length sizer die to form the cases by creating a .014 thousands gap between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die. Again, R-P cylinder brass cost $37.00 per 20 +/- a few. From another forum: fguffey Member Join Date: August 28, 2008 Posts: 540 Megs, manufactures of brass do mot make brass that does not fit the chamber, everything they make is sized to minimum dimensions, the target market is too small, with an exception, R-P makes cases called cylinder brass, a 30/06 type case with a straight wall that is 2.650 thousands long stamped 35 Whelen for about $35.00 for 20. Forming first then fire never caught on, for most it is easier to size first then fire to form. F. Guffey

October 30, 2010, 10:22 AM	#15
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	I see your point, F. Guffey. I guess it goes along with the way they manufacture ammo. If they make them small, it fits them all. Very few shooters and even a minority of reloaders understand and work with headspace dimensions as well as you do. I'm fortunate that both of the 30-06's I'm hunting with are very close to minimum dimensions. That cylinder brass is pretty pricey but can imagine that with the short production runs they actually don't make much on them. I don't guess any of the small brass mfrs are around any more, they may be able to do it and be profitable doing so. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

October 30, 2010, 11:03 PM	#16
cornbush Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: The retarded place below Idaho Posts: 1,408	You could try GRAF __________________ The best shot I ever made was an accident

October 31, 2010, 04:08 PM	#17
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	http://www.z-hat.com/Cylinder.htm F. Guffey

October 31, 2010, 04:11 PM	#18
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	http://www.z-hat.com/wildcatagory.htm F. Guffey

August 7, 2011, 07:32 PM	#19
Gos Member Join Date: October 26, 2010 Posts: 15	Just checking back in case someone found a source for cylinder brass in .223. Thanks, Gos.

August 7, 2011, 07:57 PM	#20
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	You could try calling Starline in MO - they actually make brass and might be able to accommodate you

August 7, 2011, 08:18 PM	#21
Gos Member Join Date: October 26, 2010 Posts: 15	Struck out on Starline too. They are big in the pistol case area, but not so much rifle...

August 7, 2011, 11:50 PM	#22
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Have you gotten a quote from Quality Cartridge? They'll run nearly anything you can think of. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

August 22, 2011, 11:56 PM	#23
Gos Member Join Date: October 26, 2010 Posts: 15	Tried, but never returned my email... I need to call them when I can match their business hours. Thanks for everyone who had a suggestion. Gos

August 23, 2011, 03:46 AM	#24
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Make your own. Anneal 223 brass, run it through a 7mm expander, 8mm expander, and finally 9mm expander and you should be set. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.