January 27, 2014, 05:00 PM | #1 |
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Powder Expiration
Is there and expiration date on powder. I have powder that I used in the late 1970's that has been stored in the original container, but I don't know if they are still good. A fellow reloader told me that as long as the powder doesn't smell sour (????) then it still should be good.
I have my original reloading manuals, so I will be loading according to those tests, not a load from a more modern manual. Powder is so difficult to get, I hate to throw my old away if it is still good. |
January 27, 2014, 05:07 PM | #2 |
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As long as it was stored well and as you buddy said "no sour smell" then it should be OK.
What I do is load 5 - 6 rounds at the low end and shot them. Typically if the powder is bad the smell is pretty pronounced and any metal on the inside of the container will show oxidation of some kind.
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January 27, 2014, 05:12 PM | #3 |
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Powder stored at room temperatures and humidities will last 50 or more years. If other storage conditions, you need to check for foul smell or rusty spots in the powder. Heat and moisture are powder's main enemies. If the powder was always stored indoors and has no smell, I'd not be afraid to use it.
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January 27, 2014, 05:15 PM | #4 |
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Someone once told me that if smokeless powder has a strong ammonia smell to it, it is too old and shouldn’t be used. Problem is, to me new smokeless powder smells like ammonia, so my nose must not work right. Anyone know if this ammonia smell test is valid, or just a tale?
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January 27, 2014, 05:33 PM | #5 |
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it all stinks
I, when getting REALLY OLD POWDER, simply run a low-charge-weight comparison test using it.
I have Redhawks
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January 27, 2014, 06:56 PM | #6 | |
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Quote:
I'm not current with all the new powders, but up to ten years ago, I used the smell test. Have no idea if this is still valid: Single base: IMR and similar single base powders -- ether smell when new, no smell if older but no ammonia or bad smell. Double base: Winchester, etc. -- No smell if new, no smell when old. Any smell is not good and should be tested at low weights or tossed. |
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January 27, 2014, 07:00 PM | #7 | |||
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Quote:
Based on old surplus 4895 that I bought, and which went bad, powder that is almost at the end of its life will have no smell at first. You will have the occasional sticking case and I had rifle retorts that were abnormal. They did not sound like the others. If you get these indications dump the powder. If you keep the powder years after this, then you will eventually see red dust, smell the fuming red nitric acid gas, and the smell will knock your socks off, it is real nasty. http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=3&t=248538 Quote:
Cincinnati Kid Platinum Bullet Member Join Date Dec 1969 Location Cincinnati, Ohio Posts 421 Quote:
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January 28, 2014, 10:35 AM | #8 |
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I have a lot of old powder (primers too) from the 70s.
Last summer I dug up a can of 4831 for my 270 (been using 4350) to see if I could come up with a more accurate load for long range. The old can, like I said, was from the 70's, the can was dented and rusted in spots. I decided to see the difference so I bought a new can to see what happened. I loaded a bunch of each, old and new powder. Everything the same, except for the powder. I couldn't tell the difference over a coronagraph, I couldn't tell the difference with my zeros or grouping to 300 yards. Didn't try any farther then that, saw no reason too. I have a 20 lb can of H335. I think it might be contaminated. Don't smell any different but I lost the lid a couple years ago. Anyway, soon as I can find a can of new H335 I'm gonna test it. I don't know if its contaminated, just think it might be. If it is, then I can always use it as fertilizer, if its not, then I have a lot of 223 brass that needs loaded. In short, to be sure, compare you suspected old power with new and see what happens. Same with primers. In the 80s the Army ran out of 45s so for my NG Pistol teams I got the state to flip the bill for primers and powder to load 45s with cast bullets for the State Pistol Team. About the same time my powder and primers arrived the Army started buying 45 ACP ammo from Israel so I was left setting on a lot of powder and primers. When I retired the guy who took my place didn't want anything to do with reloading supplies (Long Story) so I ended up with the components. I just finished the last of the powder last year, but I'm still setting on about 18K LP primers. They work just as good as LP primers you get today.
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January 28, 2014, 06:35 PM | #9 |
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I have a can of H335 I bought in 1973 to load ammo for my first .308, a Remington 660. I've been doing load work for a couple of .35 Whelens lately and one called for 53.0 gr. of H335 and any 250 gr; bullet. I opened the can and it had the same basic smell as a fresh can of W748 or W760, just not quite as strong. I did the load work up with three different 250 gr. bullets in three different .35 Whelen rifles and the pressure was just fine and velocity right where it should be. It is my belief that double base powders store much better than single base. To my nose, double base powders have a weak paint like odor. Good single base powders like the IMR series have a strong smell of ether. I've never had a double base powder go bad on me but I had a can of IMR 4350 go sour and belive me, you'll know that smell when it's bad.
Paul B.
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January 28, 2014, 06:41 PM | #10 | |
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Quote:
DoD uses chemistry labs to determine the amount of stabilizer in the powder, all we can do is look for gross indications like color and smell. Not exact, but that is all we can do.
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January 28, 2014, 07:17 PM | #11 |
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There is no expiration date, powder is good until it goes bad.
Fresh powder has an either smell, a solvent used to make it. Ammonia smells like old cat pee, they're not at all the same odor. Left unsealed, the either will soon evaporate and the powder will have little or no odor until chemical breakdown starts. Sealed powder will last for many decades if it's stored cool; colder the better, heat accelerates any chemical change. I still have a few pounds of Hodgedon's original 4831 WW II surplus I purchased in a 50# drum in 1967, it has no smell and it's fine. Last edited by wncchester; January 28, 2014 at 07:32 PM. |
January 28, 2014, 07:21 PM | #12 |
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1987
I discovered some of my old powder (W231 & W296) at my father's house that I left there in 1987. It was in a linen closet, and storage conditions were excellent.
I loaded and used the powder last year (some 26 years) and powder worked and behaved just fine. I saw no difference compared to the new stuff.
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