.22LR vs .32 ACP?

[44 AMP]

They are going to do so little damage as they pass that the pain of the shot could possibly even go unnoticed.

I highly doubt this would happen unless the one being shot is on some serious drugs, or has enough adrenaline pumping that he likely wouldn't notice larger calibers either. But if thats what you want to believe...

Believe or doubt what you want, adrenaline alone is enough to mask pain from minor and even major injuries, until things calm down. I personally knew a cop decades ago who had been shot during a gunfight. He always said he never even realized he had been shot until after the gun fight was over.

While there are cases where the bad guy basically goes "OMG I've been shot" and gives up, or flees, or in some cases, even collapses from a hit that is not physically incapacitating, there are other cases where a bad guy has ignored a chest full of .357s, until blood pressure loss finally shut him down.



There are no magic bullets, nothing is 100%. Bigger bullets tend to work better, but even that is not a 100% certainty.

[JERRYS.]

#15, #17. LOL

[Satchmoeddie]

Given a choice, I take the .32 ACP, but only because it is a centerfire cartridge, and is less likely to malfunction in an autoloader. More different pistol models have been chambered in .32 ACP than in any other round, including 9mm Luger. Back in the 1900s, 1910s, 1920s, 1930s there were 1000s of small shops making everything from guns to pianos, so there were 1000s of obscure little and not so little handguns chambered in .32 ACP. Honestly, if I had to choose a small concealable anemic round, .25 ACP might win out over .32 ACP. I have the Beretta "Cat" guns in .22LR, .25 ACP and .32 ACP, or Bobcats in .22 LR & .25 ACP, and the Tomcat in .32 ACP. The Seecamp is too weird and won't chamber lots of different .32 ACP rounds. The Remington R51 in .32 ACP is a fine little pistol, but I will take the .380 version over the .32ACP, any day of the week, (same with the Walther PP, PPK & PPKS pistols). You don't want to be on the wrong end of any of them.

[rc]

If you were comparing a 25 and a 22, I'd say go for the cheaper and almost as effective 22. If you are comparing a 32 and a 22 there is absolutely no contest. While the 32 is significantly more expensive it is only slightly behind the 380 in effect. Probably 71gr at 700 vs 40 grains at 850 out of similar sized pocket pistols. rc

[briandg]

I personally think that 44 mag put together a credible and detailed answer to whether the .22 should be left at home and the .32 should be carried. There is no great advantage, IMO, between the little lead slug of .22.

Gold dot .32. 60 grains, 1,000 fps

cci velocitor .22 40 grains hollow point, 1,400 fps.


the bore diameter isn't going to make any difference, imo. The gold dot is pretty certain to perform better than a lead hollow point. But, as 44 said, it's still going to be a wash, pretty much. Different factors will decide what works best in real life.

So, if we can't absolutely count on the .22 to be more powerful and damaging, we will be smart to choose the most reliable format. A .32 centerfire with ammo that will feed properly. Reliable. reliable.

[HighValleyRanch]

cci velocitor .22 40 grains hollow point, 1,400 fps.

1400 fps out of a small short barreled pistol??
You're dreaming.

[pblanc]

Originally Posted by Archie

This reminds me of the question, Would one prefer a sword or a spear against a lion? Frankly, I'd prefer an A10 Warthog, but...

Okay. From my knowledge, a .32 ACP RNJ (standard) round will penetrate deeper than a .22 long rifle round from a similar length barrel handgun. Again from my knowledge, the .32 ACP will more reliably penetrate a human skull. So I'd prefer the .32 ACP.

What do I normally carry? A Lightweight Commander in .45 ACP, preferably with Federal Hydra-shoc ammunition. (Yes, I know Hydra-shoc has been superseded, but it still works as good as ever, it shoots to the sights in my carry gun and I have some 800 or so rounds).

I am not entirely sure that is always the case, although it may be some times. In comparing FMJ 32 Auto to 22 LR round nose I have seen some tests with ballistic gel in which the 22 LR had better penetration.

Here is an article examining 32 Auto ballistics in which the following statement is made:

"Very deep penetration can be had with a 32 ACP FMJ which penetrates to 11.2” in 20% ballistic gelatin."

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Handguns.../32%20ACP.html

I would be inclined to call 11.2" marginally adequate rather than very deep penetration, and I am pretty sure that this testing was done with bare gelatin.

Here is another article by Greg Ellifritz looking at the ballistic performance of some smaller caliber loads. This testing was done with clear ballistic gelatin covered with four layers of denim. If you scroll down a bit you will find the results of some tests they did using snub nose revolvers firing 22 LR and 32 caliber:

http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...esting-results

The 22 LR ammunition used was high quality CCI 36 grain Stingers and 40 grain Velocitors, neither of which deformed or expanded. The Stingers penetrated 14-15" and the heavier Velocitors 13-14". A variety of 32 caliber loads also showed no expansion and penetrated to a nearly equivalent degree: 13-16".

The kicker of course is that these were 32 Magnum loads, unquestionably a more powerful cartridge than 32 Auto.

[briandg]

RC, here are the comparisons.

Both gold dot.

.32 acp 60 grains, 1,000 fps

.380 acp 90 grains, 1,000 fps

Bore diameter is again, going to be rather insignificant. but bigger bore, half again the weight, same velocity. The .380 is a significant step up from the .32. very significant. I have decided to trust the .380 and I would go lower by choice. I would much rather have the .32 than the .22. The .22 is a last resort, I wouldn't depend on just the pistol. I would absolutely carry a knife.

[briandg]

1400 fps out of a small short barreled pistol??
You're dreaming.

I'm not going to sit here and argue with anyone about what these things will or won't do, that is the published stats, and everyone knows that .22 rimfire stats aren't taken off of pocket pistols. that doesn't matter. Even out of a pocket pistol it will come out at 1,000 or so. That makes it even more inferior to the .32, doesn't it?

[JERRYS.]

Even out of a pocket pistol it [.22lr] will come out at 1,000 or so

if 850-925 fps is "or so" you are right.

[Bill DeShivs]

Published RIFLE stats....

[briandg]

yes, that qualifies as "or so."

The bobcat, for example, has a 2.4 inch barrel, at Ballistics by the inch, the three inch barrel gets about 1,000 from the velocitor and the two inch gets about 900.

Enough hair splitting.

[xandi]

Here’s just a thought,
My llama 22 will hold 14+1 rounds, with cci minimags it’s near 100%*
I can put all 15 of them in a vertical string rather quickly
What small 32acp pistol has that kind of capacity
*with new ammo

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Roamin Wade

That's funny, Aguila. You said all that and then ended up doing just like everyone else. You answered the binary question lastly...

But I answered it ... I didn't tell him the smallest caliber he should consider for self defense is 9mm, or .454 Casull, or .500 S&W.

[JERRYS.]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-32-acp-great/

this is somewhat new ammo.

[briandg]

jerry, I have seen the press on the lehigh, and I'm going to say that it will obviously work better than a round nosed FMJ. Just the fact that the sharp shoulder cut plugs out of the cloth proves that there will be a little more damage to the tissues, tearing through somewhat rather than slipping through the meat like a marble through a colon.

I don't believe that the lehigh bullet is the new and ultimate performer, but I will give it credit for being what might be a very dependable and deadly round for the .32.

For context, though, this is the arcane bullet. Originally designed to be an armor piercing 9mm bullet. In this context, wow, it doesn't seem to have gone anywhere.

Not sure how to credit this picture so I'll add a link to the page.





https://forum.cartridgecollectors.or...fo-needed/3507

[Model12Win]

Originally Posted by JERRYS.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-32-acp-great/

this is somewhat new ammo.

No way I'd carry that over FMJ. It jammed up your gun plenty.

[Bill DeShivs]

So, Lehigh made a non-expanding, jacketed projectile that penetrates less than FMJ-and this is supposed to be an improvement?

[NAW]

If you buy well made 22lr ammo like CCI minni mag it is just as reliable as any center fire round. If the manufactuers spin the priming compound into the rim fully then your good to go. Bulk 22 lr ammo will sometimes have voids of no priming material in the rim or not enough priming material. Thats when you get duds with 22lr ammo.

[Don Dayacetah]

I wouldn't stand in front of either round, so I won't call them mouse, either.

The reason I like 32 cal, is because manufacturers haven't gotten their shirt together with
a dependable, compact, 9mm DA I trust, yet. It's always SA with a garbage safety, or some such. So they will miss out on my money, as I use my 32.

[Drm50]

I can speak from experience. I was shot with a 22hp in calf of leg. Through &
Through, back to front. Missed the bone, only got meat. It brought tears to my
eyes and hurt. It did hurt more after a minute or two but got my attention
Immediately.

[pblanc]

Originally Posted by NAW

If you buy well made 22lr ammo like CCI minni mag it is just as reliable as any center fire round. If the manufactuers spin the priming compound into the rim fully then your good to go. Bulk 22 lr ammo will sometimes have voids of no priming material in the rim or not enough priming material. Thats when you get duds with 22lr ammo.

I can't recall ever having a misfire with CCI or Eley 22 LR ammunition. Now I am sure it has happened and someone will be along directly to tell me so.

I have had the occasional misfire with center-fire pistol ammunition. I recall one or two with Winchester NATO 9 mm 124 grain and with Prvi Partizan (PPU) 9 mm.

[44 AMP]

I personally think that 44 mag put together a credible and detailed answer to whether the .22 should be left at home and the .32 should be carried.

who is 44 mag???

1400 fps out of a small short barreled pistol??
You're dreaming.

I don't know about CCI Velocitor's speed from a pocket pistol. But I have clocked the "standard" high velocity rounds from several 6" .22s and it averages 1250fps. I can see a hyper velocity .22 doing 1.400fps from a 6", maybe..but not from a 2" or less barrel.

I can't recall ever having a misfire with CCI or Eley 22 LR ammunition. Now I am sure it has happened and someone will be along directly to tell me so.

Hi! just happening along, to tell you so!
I don't shoot Eley, so I can't give an opinion about them, but I do know CCI is not immune to failure, though sometimes, the blame is properly laid on the gun, not the ammo. And, it may not be a CHEAP gun that is responsible.

Was at the range one time with a friend, he was shooting his S&W model 41, I was shooting my Ruger Mk I. Ammo was CCI Blazer. He had several misfires (and I mean like 2 or more per mag). I had zero with the same ammo. He gave me his ammo, including the misfires. Every bit of it fired perfectly in my Ruger, including the misfires from his gun. He switched to a different brand (I no longer remember which) and had Zero misfires with it, in his gun. It's not always cheap ammo or a cheap gun that screws up. Sometimes, its specific combinations of factors.

[xandi]

Did not the 32 acp See Action in both world wars

[Onward Allusion]

Yeah, but we're tougher nowadays.