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Old October 15, 2000, 10:47 PM   #26
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Join Date: October 14, 2000
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Jumping in a little late... but here goes. This is more to the grappling debate than the original question. First off, let me say that I think BJJ is a fine martial art and has demonstrated ample evidence that is worthy of serious study as part of a well-rounded eclectic system.

However, I can think of 2 common scenarios right off (and I'm sure there are others) when you would *not* want to go to the ground.

First: Several of his friends exit the bar, or round the corner, or hear his yells for help, or whatever. Very shortly, everyone's using your head for World Cup practice.

Second: Your opponent is carrying a tactical folder. Suddenly, you have 4" of steel in your kidney.

BJJ seems like an effective system providing it's an unarmed conflict against one person. The scope of it's effectiveness is limited, depending entirely upon context. And that's why grappling is just a part of an overall defensive package (unarmed, sticks, knives and guns).

One last thought. I've heard it said (by someone who ought to know) that anyone skilled in both BJJ and knife would make for a truly scary opponent. Hmmm... now if the tables were turned and *you* were the one with the folder?
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Old October 16, 2000, 02:00 PM   #27
Join Date: September 27, 2000
Posts: 20
Here is my .02 cents on the issue of grappling as a legitimate part of the self defense instruction: In my youth I participated in karate instruction but judo attracted me because it was real hands on stuff. Judo will put muscle mass on faster than weight lifting. The muscle will be built for endurance as well as power and will be developed more fully. Then again, I was taught by Koreans. Their workouts are extremely tough. Anyway, when I started judo my best benchpress was 200 lbs.. After one year of judo, I was able to bench 215 for 5 reps. And this with nothing but judo. No weight lifting. Also, after that year, I was able to power up my own body weight (166lbs.)
straight up over my head. It was not a strict military lift. It was just getting it up with all my might. So, the benefit of the wrestling martial arts is tremendous. It definitely packs on power, endurance and speed. Having said that, I do not claim judo to be superior to, say, karate. Both styles compliment each other in the street. Attacks generally start off with distance and then break down into wrestling. During the distance phase, karate and similar arts are superior. During the wrestling phase, judo and similar arts are superior.

But now I'm 52. The muscles are gone. The injuries are coming back to haunt me. My endurance is shot. I work 12-13 hours a day. The bod is just worn out. What I recommend for those who have not had any martial arts training and are over the hill is to seek a class (best) or watch a video (next best)that teaches practical easy to learn self defense. Then take it home and visualize the techniques taught. I don't recommend a formal martial arts school at this stage of our lives. But for us, the first line of defense is a gun, then a knife or club and finally hand to hand. Get that permit to carry! What are the odds of me at 52 overcoming some strong 19 year old attacker with a weapon? Not too good, even knowing what I know. So, be smart and get the concealed handgun permit.

[This message has been edited by Solomon (edited October 16, 2000).]
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Old October 17, 2000, 05:35 PM   #28
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Join Date: October 5, 2000
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 177
Okay, so this threadis already obscenely long, but I can't resist
bringing in another element.

For starters, I'm a 19 year old male, 5'10", about 155lbs. So, I'm an
average sized guy in okay shape (I was a distance runner and distance
swimmer in high school, but have been lazy in 2 years of college).

I started studying Aikido a couple months ago. I'll skip all the
stuff about what grappling really means, how easy it is to quickly
break limbs, how any inexperienced person can be made to surrender or
die in a matter of tenths of seconds, etc...

The issue I want to discuss is this: possibly the most important thing
I've learned is how to TAKE blows, grabs, locks, etc. (known to us as
"Ukemi" or "the art of being thrown")

What do you do if you're thrown? most people would go "AGH!" and
tighten their muscles instinctively, fearing pain. This is, in fact,
exactly the opposite response that you want to minimize damage. You
want to relax, be fluid, and maximize the amount of time of impact
with a roll or a slap if possible.

These habits (and I call them habits, not techniques, since you can't
just see it and do it; yopu have to train your muscles) can be applied
to pretty much any situation. If you trip down the stairs, or you
crash on your bicycle, or some crack-crazed BG throws you over a bar
table... You can change something which would give you a concussion
and internal bleeding into moderate brusiing and a bit of dizziness.

Also important are issues like simply understanding how your body
moves when under duress.

We always say "pick a gun for self defense, then practice, practice,
practice!" We often suggest learning from experts in the CCW world.
This applies even more so to your body: practice moving your body, and
learn from people that study these things.

I could say more, but this is already too long. besides, I have to
leave for practice soon...

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