The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 5, 2007, 11:49 PM   #51
hikingman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2004
Location: Alabama
Posts: 260
That is rough news. What is the outdoor covered range, like? Is it a building with four walls or one open side to the outdoors?

Hikingman
hikingman is offline  
Old December 8, 2007, 05:50 PM   #52
Apache6
Member
 
Join Date: December 8, 2007
Posts: 87
Still nothing from the original poster?
Apache6 is offline  
Old December 8, 2007, 10:55 PM   #53
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 22,588
Quote:
Still nothing from the original poster?
The OP posted this post on several forums. I posted a link on page 2 of this thread to a post on another forum in which the OP took a more active part. Here it is again.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=307170
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old December 8, 2007, 11:16 PM   #54
langenc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,317
If I recall correctly primers have a lead salt as the poof stuff. I would think firing them OUTside would not be a problem-even doubtful inside unless the air handlers were shut off and then it would take time!!
langenc is offline  
Old December 9, 2007, 10:36 PM   #55
amamnn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2006
Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA
Posts: 1,323
Like Kelly, I was wondering if it were not a bogus post, but I see the original poster has posted legit questions in the past. I'll only add that if it were that easy to get lead poisoning I would be long dead. My dad would be dead. Most of my cousins and my grandfather would be dead. Oops sorry Grandad.-- he died of a heart attack in the 60's and no way related to lead. 45 guys at the 3 gun clubs I belong to would be dead.
Someone is trying to piss on the poster's leg while telling him it's raining. Medical people are not any less human than the rest of us. Some have their own agendas. When I lost my hearing in my left ear it was from a virus until the doctor learned that I was at the time making my living testing guns and ammo and writing about it. I've shot maybe a total of 5 rounds without effective hearing protection in my life. Suddenly it was hearing loss from excessive noise---BTW it was an HMO and he thought they would not have to treat it without additional charges to be paid by me. He was wrong on both counts.

Without being there, as someone mentioned, it's impossible to know what happened to the poster, but I would not get excited about it.
__________________
"If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal
amamnn is offline  
Old December 17, 2007, 11:10 PM   #56
bomccorkle
Member
 
Join Date: December 11, 2007
Posts: 32
so whatever happened to this guy has he posted newhere on here since then I am interested I am getting ready to start reloading cast bullets
bomccorkle is offline  
Old January 8, 2008, 02:07 PM   #57
snuffy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2001
Location: Oshkosh wi.
Posts: 3,055
After having read this and the thread on THR, I got my blood level tested last July while at my veterans clinic. The results didn't come in the mail with the other numbers, so I asked today what my #'s were. 5.0! My nurse said anything over 10.0 would be excessive.

Considering how much lead I am in contact with, casting, loading those cast lead boolits, and shooting, I'm good to go. I do have access to an indoor range, but do most of my shooting outdoors. I do NOT have any type of ventilation for my casting pot. I'm careful about washing my hands and keeping the lead away from food.

So to me, this is much to do about almost nothing!
__________________
The more people I meet, the more I love my dog

They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?
snuffy is offline  
Old January 8, 2008, 05:00 PM   #58
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 16,608
I think a lot of this actually turns out to be caused by personal hygiene habits. If you don't wash your hands after coming in contact with lead, and touch your mouth or food or pick your nose, you can have a problem. If you're one of those people who has the habit of licking your fingers before you you turn the pages of your loading manual at the bench, then you are probably at risk.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old January 8, 2008, 06:54 PM   #59
Stargazer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2006
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 506
Most of us ole farts are doing the cholesterol bloodwork anyway so what does it hurt to have your lead level checked? Nothing. Better safe than sorry. I go give blood this weekend for the cholesterol testing and asked the Doc to have them do a lead level alao. No skin off anyones back, I will report back when I get the results. I shoot outdoors but reload a lot. Also my occupation brings soldering in the picture so I feel a check might just benefit me.
__________________
5.56mm, reach out and touch something. .458 SOCOM,reach out and knock something down.


M70 Web Page
Stargazer is offline  
Old January 9, 2008, 12:59 PM   #60
Conservadude
Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2004
Location: Knik, Alaska
Posts: 65
"Another source of lead poisoning today is a number of items imported from China. Coffee Cups, etc with fancy logos on them can be deadly. The company I retired from had to destroy cases of coffee cups with the corporate logo on them because they were leaching lead. Every cup of coffee contained hundreds of times the allowable level of lead."

This wouldn't surprise me a bit. Our regular set of dishes at home vary in size, shape, color, and metal content ...some get hotter than hades if microwaved for a few seconds while others stay cool as a cucumber. Some have rust leaching out through the paint and others are perfectly clean. And how many millions of toys were recalled for red paint containing lead this last year? The problem: Many chinese companies are willing to take shortcuts, violate contracts, and go with cheaper sources of supplies without adequate acceptance testing (assuming they even care.) China produces the world's crappiest products and produces the highest amounts of pollution per unit product in the world. If you want to avoid risks and do something good for the environment, then boycott China until they improve! Buy quality products from countries with clean manufacturing and you'll reduce consumption of natural resources, reduce personal risk, and reduce pollution ...in addition to having the pleasure of enjoying quality for a change.

There, I feel better now.

Brian
__________________
Yes, Samantha, there is a God and the United States *is* a good country
Conservadude is offline  
Old January 9, 2008, 02:11 PM   #61
brickeyee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2004
Posts: 3,342
"...some get hotter than hades if microwaved for a few seconds while others stay cool as a cucumber. "

It depends on what is on the clay used ot make the ceramic.
Many have a high iron content, or other metals.

The glaze is the only layer you care about since it is the only one you (or food) can actually touch.
Unglazed material has always presented a higher hazard.
brickeyee is offline  
Old January 10, 2008, 03:17 AM   #62
106RR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 2002
Posts: 234
Lead Poisonong

One area that has been overlooked is smoking. The lead salts from the primers deposited on your hands goes straight to your mouth. Most people wash their hands before they eat but no one washes before they smoke. I am an old guy with a very high exposure from shooting, military, and explosives. When shooting at the range, I wash my hands before and after going to the bathroom and I don't smoke at all. My lead levels are less than 10 micrograms per decliter. I do not tumble brass, something I consider to be a major danger for lead poisoning.
BTW -- Some of the symptoms include madness and impotence -- we better hope the first hits before the second one!
106RR is offline  
Old January 10, 2008, 05:17 PM   #63
farnorthdan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2007
Posts: 371
environmental remediation

Hey you guys are talkin my language....I do environmental remediation for a living and have been for about ten years and believe it or not lead is one of the many things we clean up. I've seen it in and remediated many types of lead in many varying conditions. All my workers actually have to be trained to to remidiation work and are state certified. You'd be suprised at all the different applications of lead containing materials that are around us right now.

As far as training to do this type of work, employees have to go through whats called a "Lead awareness class", basically this is an 8 hour course and primarily focusses on hygene issues ie. washing your hands before eating, smoking and/or anything else you might put in your mouth.

On projects where we are cleaning consealed dust areas, old paint removal etc. (old hangars, buildings etc.) workers wear PPE (personnel protective equipment) which includes rubber gloves, tyvec suits and HEPA filter equiped resperators. Workers also have maditory blood work done on an annual basis unless they are exposed for more than 30 consecutive days. Workers go through a decontamination procedure at the end of every work shift, not only for the safety of the worker but more importantly those who will come in contact with you when you leave the work place.....like your kids, who are by far more susseptable to the hazards of lead exposure.

Bottom line: there is an inherent risk accociated with working with or around lead containing materials, these risks can be minimized with the use of appropriate PPE.

Just my .02
farnorthdan is offline  
Old January 11, 2008, 02:10 PM   #64
actionflies
Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2007
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Posts: 70
After 3 months of not shooting and taking 1000 milligram of vitamin C daily, I went in for my 2nd blood test and will get the result in 2 weeks. This is not a bogus post.
actionflies is offline  
Old January 13, 2008, 02:53 AM   #65
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 20,334
Think for a minute about what OSHA stands for...

Especially the first letter. Occupational. OSHA limits are intended for 8 hour per day, 40 hour per week limits.

Just so you don't think I am talking out of my hardhat, I have spent seveal years doing chemical management work at govt nuclear facilities. I am well versed in MSDSs, worker right to know, occupational exposure limits, and related regulations. I have worked closely supporting Industrial Hygenists and safety personnel.

Now, I don't have an MSDS for mettalic lead in front of me, (it is late at night, I'm at home), but here are a few thoughts for consideration. First, as I mentioned first, are the numbers you are looking at for OSHA limits the PEL (the 8hr/40hr constant exposure limit)? Or something else? Remember the constant exposure limit is what you can be exposed to (by your employer) without suffering any adverse health effects. And, these limits do not take into account any environmental exposure outside of work.

For example, silica (sand) is a listed carcinogen (known or suspected to cause cancer), and there are limits that an employer can expose workers to. However, silica dust that blows into the workplace from the surrounding desert (for example) is not regulated, nor monitored.

Do some research, and find out what level of exposure (as shown by your blood tests) that actually causes harm to the body. Your exposure may be higher than average, but until it actually causes adverse health effects, you have not suffered lead poisoning, you have lead exposure.

A good idea would be to have your wife (or someone living in your household) tested for lead levels as well. If they show elevated levels, and do not share your hobby shooting, that strongly points to some other environmental factor, not lead bullets and shooting.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old January 14, 2008, 04:01 PM   #66
actionflies
Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2007
Location: Aloha, Oregon
Posts: 70
My 2nd blood test result was 22 mcg/dL from 57 mcg/dL 3 months ago. I'm going to keep taking 1000mg of vitamin C daily and start shooting soon.
actionflies is offline  
Old January 14, 2008, 05:17 PM   #67
AlaskaMike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Posts: 909
Good for you! I've heard vitamin C is a good thing in mitigating lead levels. I try to drink a glass of OJ every day that I do something with cast bullets.

Last spring I smelted down a bunch of wheel weights into ingots. I was outside, but was drinking coffee (and I knew better). With all the crap on the wheel weights, there was a bit of smoke, and I'm sure some of it settled into my coffee. My next lead test came back at 19 mg/dL. The amount of shooting, reloading and bullet casting remained at about the same level for the next year, and my next test came back at 5 mg/dL. That really hammered home to me the importance of not eating or drinking while playing with lead.

I have a wife and 4 year old daughter at home, and thankfully the precautions I take are protecting them (I'm much more worried about my daughter with her developing central nervous system being much more vulnerable than mine or my wife's). I made my wife get tested along with my daughter, and they both barely even registered.

Mike
AlaskaMike is offline  
Old January 16, 2008, 06:11 PM   #68
Stargazer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2006
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 506
I got my results today. Only (2) parts so I am OK. Supposed to be less that (25) so I am fine with that low of a reading. I'll just have to keep shooting and reloading and soldering then I reckon.
__________________
5.56mm, reach out and touch something. .458 SOCOM,reach out and knock something down.


M70 Web Page
Stargazer is offline  
Old January 31, 2008, 10:31 PM   #69
circle141
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2008
Location: Pinellas Park,Florida
Posts: 9
To much lead

First let give you some background on the business I ran for twenty five years,
I ran a small company that made all kinds of lead products, 500,000 lbs. per year. I cast all of the products including pistol bullets, over 1,000,00 per year.

I had a blood level test once a year, the highest was a 10. I found that you can not get to much lead from handling it, only from your lungs or your mouth.
I was a bullseye shooter for years. If you handle lead you must clean your hands before eating or smoking. I also like to drag race cars, used leaded gas,
got a lot on my hands and body. I also cleaned indoor pistol ranges for the lead I needed for my business. I turned 67 at the first of the year and am in good health. I sold my business and work part time for the person I sold the business to. I hope to live long enough to make my kids life hell and spoil
my grand kids. Just my thoughts

Mike Circle
[email protected]
circle141 is offline  
Old January 31, 2008, 11:23 PM   #70
2spurrs
Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Posts: 17
OK I'll add to this. As a IPSC shooter / range officer for several years I developed problems with memory / concentration. Having my blood tested for lead I was Just below the Celation point from the test. This was 10 years ago and exact details are not available. I was shooting and being an RO for indoor & outdoor ranges. I was reloading several hundred round of lead bullets per week. I "believe" my problem was caused by the indoor ranges and poor ventalation of the time. Per this thread it could also have been the case cleaning/tumbling that was my problem.

I drastically reduced my shooting and stopped being a Range Officer. I am now OK.

lessons learned.
1 be serious about lead exposure
2 you can recover from this problem.
2spurrs is offline  
Old February 1, 2008, 12:00 AM   #71
klw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2005
Posts: 118
lead levels

As I cast a lot I have my blood lead levels checked periodically. After casting up just over 10 tons of bullets I could easily believe that I would eventually get into trouble. 10 tons in about 20 years. But it never became an issue until recently.

In November my lead level reached 25. That's the highest it has ever been. I stopped all casting and literally sealed up my lead. A month later my lead level was 28. Now all my lead was sealed up and I wasn't casting so how did it still go up?

But I was shooting and I was shooting one gun that was a bit odd. My Mauser M1891 is weird. Put enough powder in the case to seal the chamber up properly and the powder charge is too high and the accuracy is miserable. Lower the powder charge to the point where the accuracy is great and the chamber doesn't seal. You get a blast right into the nose with each shot. I never throught anything about that.

But this was the only exposure between the time my lead level reached 25 and then went up to 28. This absolutely had to be the source.

So I stopped shooting that gun. Three months later my lead level is 17.

I think that my elevated lead levels this year were not do to my castings. I've been doing that for decades. I think it was from that one rifle. I was shooting ten rounds a day five days a weeks for most of the year. I think that you absolutely can get elevated lead levels this way.

I've had my lead levels checked for years. Never went up until I started shooting this one gun.
klw is offline  
Old February 1, 2008, 01:55 AM   #72
wyocarp
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2007
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 169
I do as much shooting as most. Mostly reloads that I cast bullets for. I haven't seen any ill effects. And if it kills me, what better way to go than shooting. This lead problem has come from some other place. Everything we do these days kills us. Of course it has also killed everyone that has ever lived.
wyocarp is offline  
Old February 1, 2008, 02:02 AM   #73
darrentxs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 5, 2007
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 401
..
__________________
Happy Trails to You

Last edited by darrentxs; February 1, 2008 at 11:21 AM. Reason: remove
darrentxs is offline  
Old February 19, 2008, 01:22 AM   #74
joneb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2005
Location: Central , OR
Posts: 1,860
Actionflies, I'd like to thank you for your contribution to these forums it takes courage to share these things, since reading posts on this topic from TFL and THR I have changed my shooting and reloading habits, thanks to you I am more aware and cautious jj
A old kind Sheriff once told me, " Just because your ignorant, doesn't mean I'll let you be stupid"
joneb is offline  
Old February 20, 2008, 09:45 PM   #75
Hello123
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2005
Posts: 571
Taken from emedicine

Lead poisoning is probably the most important chronic environmental illness affecting modern children. Perhaps the organ of most concern is the developing brain. Effects on the brain appear to continue into the teenaged years and beyond.

Recent literature suggests that significant insult to the brain occurs at very low levels and that medical intervention with chelation fails to reverse such effects.

The effects of lead poisoning on the brain are manifold and include delayed or reversed development, permanent learning disabilities, seizures, coma, and even death.

Lead is excreted through the urine.

Generally, adults develop lead poisoning as the result of an occupational exposure or from exposure through a hobby.

Mortality is rare today. However, death during the 1960s from lead encephalopathy was not rare in urban centers.

* Morbidity is common. Because lead is an enzymatic poison, it perturbs multiple essential bodily functions, producing a wide array of symptoms and signs.

* Adults with lead poisoning have increased incidences of depression, aggressive behavior, and antisocial behavior. Men with lead poisoning tend to have lower sperm counts; women have an increase in miscarriages and smaller babies.



* Children younger than 3 years are at the greatest risk for lead poisoning. This is because these children are most likely to put things containing lead into their mouths and because their brains are rapidly developing and are most vulnerable to any disorganizing influence.



* Adults present with minor nonspecific findings.
*
o Adults with lead poisoning frequently have sleep disorders. They may be hypersomnolent or have difficulty falling asleep at the appropriate time.
o In adults, obtaining a careful occupational and hobby history is important. The history of ingestion of illicit liquor may be an important clue to the etiology of lead poisoning. According to a study performed in a large urban ED, of the patients reporting ingestion of "moonshine" sometime during the previous 5 years, 51% had elevated blood lead levels and 31% had levels in the very elevated range of 50 mcg/dL or higher.

o Additionally, numerous reports document lead poisoning resulting from retained bullet or shrapnel fragments; thus, history of military or other trauma may be important.


Causes

* The department of labor lists more than 900 occupations that are associated with lead use. These occupations include lead workers, welders, glassmakers, and scrap metal workers. Parents employed in any of these occupations may bring lead dust on their persons or clothing into the home.
* Some hobbies are associated with exposures to lead. These hobbies may include making bullets, making fishing-weights, soldering, indoor firearm shooting, and remodeling older homes.
* Some cosmetics and folk remedies contain lead pigments or salts.

* Several reports exist of lead poisoning that develops as the result of absorption of lead from retained bullet or shrapnel fragments. Incidental finding of such fragments on an x-ray should prompt consideration of possible elevated lead levels, though most of these cases occur only with intraarticular fragments.
* Several reports have documented cases of childhood lead poisoning resulting from the ingestion of lead-based foreign bodies. Lead dissolves reasonably quickly in acid solutions such as in the stomach; thus, significant amounts of lead may be absorbed. The full extent of the problem is unclear, however, exercise caution when treating a child who has ingested an object that contains a significant concentration of lead.
* The history of illicit liquor ingestion may be an important clue to the etiology of lead poisoning. According to a study performed in a large urban ED, of the patients reporting ingestion of "moonshine" sometime during the previous 5 years, 51% had elevated blood lead levels and 31% had levels in the very elevated range of 50 mcg/dL or higher.






The treatment of lead poisoning is separating the child from the source of lead exposure. Chelation is used only when separation fails to drop the lead fast enough or far enough or when the lead level is in the potentially encephalopathogenic level (>60 mcg/dL).



The most important treatment of lead poisoning is the separation from the source of lead.
The word chelator is derived from the Greek term for claw; chelators form a chemical claw around the heavy metal and allow them to be excreted. Two parenteral and 2 oral drugs may be used.
Hello123 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10844 seconds with 9 queries