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Old October 17, 2008, 02:08 AM   #1
458winshooter
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Lets talk primers

Mostly I use Winchester for all my reloading and 99% of that is plinkers.That is what I usually find around here.A year or so ago a local gun store stopped carring reloading suplies so when they marked everything way down I bought all the primers they had left all were CCI.(still not sure what I'm going to do with these CCI 450's but I'll think of something).My question is what brand do you prefer and why?I know that one may be as good as the other and if you use good reloading safety you can interchange primers(start low and work up).But I was just looking for some food for thought what is your favorite and why and also what type of shooting do you use them on?Thanks and have a great day!
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Old October 17, 2008, 02:17 AM   #2
Bones507
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I use and have been using Winchester primers since i started out. I do have a few boxes of Federals that i havent tried out as of yet. Im kind of stock piling them as i figure the way prices keep going up and up i cant lose money on the deal no matter what.
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Old October 17, 2008, 11:21 AM   #3
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CCIs are available locally and I've used them exclusively for years. What do I like about them? I've never had one fail to fire.
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Old October 17, 2008, 11:47 AM   #4
Jimlakeside
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I like Wolf primers from http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/ $90.00 per 5,000. They work great, I have shot 7,000 of them.
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Old October 17, 2008, 12:46 PM   #5
sc928porsche
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I love the CCI's. I have used them since the early 70' and have never had a miss fire after untold bricks of them.
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Old October 17, 2008, 09:46 PM   #6
mrawesome22
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Winchester. I tried some CCI 450's and had 2 duds in the first 40
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Old October 18, 2008, 01:01 AM   #7
T. O'Heir
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"...I'll think of something..." Work up the load again. It's not a safety issue, but if you change any one component, you have to work up the load again.
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Old October 18, 2008, 06:00 AM   #8
ShootingNut
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Brand to brand of primers, only issue could be a difference in quality or detonition failures. Assuming the correct primer is being used for a particular cartridge, each brand should function as intended and properly ignite the powder without affecting performance or accuracy.
Just my opinion on primers, use Winchester's myself on my Lee equipment.
Best regards,
SN
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Old October 18, 2008, 07:54 AM   #9
Alleykat
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Quote:
without affecting performance or accuracy.
Wrong!
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Old October 18, 2008, 09:01 AM   #10
rn22723
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Quote:
Quote:
without affecting performance or accuracy.

Wrong!
You got that right! Geez what stupid ass statement primers can make or break a load more so in a rifle then generic handgun rounds. But, I know for fact that switching from Fed 210M to CCI BR2 primers tighten my groups and lowered my ES and corresponding other stats. So that is a so wrong to say that swapping primers is inconsquential!

Any time you change a parameter you rework up the load! That is smart and proper reloading procedure!

Last edited by rn22723; October 18, 2008 at 01:43 PM.
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Old October 18, 2008, 09:29 AM   #11
ShootingNut
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Oop's

Alley and rn I STAND CORRECTED!
Thank you, I had never noticed any diff with my handgun calibers, with primer brand change. I know that I have much to learn, haven't been at it that many years as some, nor am I into longuns.
Regards,
SN
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Old October 18, 2008, 09:31 AM   #12
Slamfire
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I purchased Winchester primers for years. They were the least expensive on the market and they shot well. The nickel coated rifle primers WLR and WSP were outstanding primers and I used them in AR's and M1a's without any fears of slamfires. However around 2000 Winchester removed the nickel and made the cups thinner. Loads than never bothered a nickel WSR now pierced brass WSR's. I called Winchester and they told me they had made the brass colored primers "more sensitive".

Winchester WLR and WSR have always hot primers; I can interchange WLR and WSR loads when using CCI #41 and CCI #34 primers. CCI describes these "mil spec" primers as magnum primers. But over the screens, the velocities they have produced are equal or less than what I got with Winchester primers.

Federal rifle primers are outstanding but after having two out of battery slamfires with the things in M1's, I am not using them for gas gun loads ever again. But they shoot very well in bolt rifles. Federal is proud to say that they are the most sensitive primer out there.

For pistol loads the WSP and WLP are fine. But Winchester primers have not always been available and not necessarily low cost. Winchester pistol primers used to have a lable indicating that they were magnum primers, or maybe it was they were magnum and standard primers. Whatever the marking, Winchester pistol primers always gave slightly higher velocities with the same powder charges as CCI, or more recently, Wolf large pistol

I have used CCI LP, SP and LR and SR. If they were cheap, I bought them.

In pistol loads, I have not found much difference over the screens between CCI pistol primers and Winchester pistol primers. The Winchester pistol primers seem on the average to be a little hotter than CCI, but not by much. CCI primers of all makes have hard cups.

People who cut mainspring coils, use reduced springs, or use ancient worn out mainsprings, will often complain of misfires with CCI pistol primers. I have no sympathy for those who reduce the ignition reliablity of their ignition system, and then pass the blame to reloading components.

I have recently conducted a little testing with Wolf large pistol primers, AA#5, and 250 L bullets in the 45 LC. It takes a half grain more powder to get the same velocity as when I use CCI or WLP primers. Wolf primers shot fine.

I have a shooting bud who has won the Wimbleton Match at Camp Perry. So I really trust his comments. He said that primers really make a difference on target. I think that comment was directed towards the use of small rifle primers in 308/7-08 cases. There was a time when "bench rest" brass came in small rifle primers. According to him, using small rifle primers in these cases reduced group size by 30%, which is significant. However the trade off was, in cool/cold weather, he had about 30% misfires.

I think there is something to mild primers and improved accuracy. But since I can shoot High Master scores with standard primers, I will continue to use what I have.

I hate maximum loads. Change brands of primers and you will experience occasional pressure problems. Changing primer lots can lead to pressure problems. If you stick to mid band loads, and change primers, you should be OK whatever brand or lot you use.
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Old October 18, 2008, 09:52 AM   #13
ilbob
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Quote:
Quote:
without affecting performance or accuracy.

Wrong!
You got that right! Geez what stupid ass statement primers can make or break a load more so in a rifle then generic handgun rounds. But, I know for fact that switching from Fed 210M to CCI BR2 primers tighten my groups and lowered my ES and corresponding other stats. So that is a so wrong to say that swapping primers is consquential!

Any time you change a parameter you rework up the load! That is smart and proper reloading procedure!
I don't have much experience with reloading precision rifle rounds but I can tell you the bench rest guys think primer selection is pretty important.

It seems to make much less difference in pistol calibers though. I once tried loading 38 special rounds with 3 different brands of primers I happened to have, same load, same head stamp cases (although they may have been fired different number of times). Shooting off a rest at 50 feet, I could not tell any difference. I think they were 5 shot groups, and except for a couple fliers that I attributed to me, all the groups were basically just a hair away from being one ragged hole. I concluded from my extensive tests (j/k about the extensive part) that primer selection did not matter much as I could not shoot well enough to tell any difference.

I made similar tests with different head stamped cases and found I could not tell any difference there either.

It could just be my shooting skill level, or the inherent ability of my guns to shoot accurately that makes the selection of primer and case not a big deal, but for me it just did not make any discernible difference.

I did notice a discernible difference in bullets though. I shoot mostly 148 DEWC bullets in my bullseye gun. I have found that in general lead bullets shoot better than plated bullets, at least for the loads I shoot.
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Old October 18, 2008, 10:08 AM   #14
ShootingNut
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Not In Your League

I'm just your average "Joe the Plumber" when it comes to my shooting skills.
So, week to week I'll vary more than any primer that I could use, when it comes to accuracy. But, I enjoy it and have fun shooting anyway, even if I
"make dumb ass statements" sometimes.
Regards,
SN
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Old October 18, 2008, 10:15 AM   #15
jamaica
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CCI

I use mostly CCI primers for both pistol and rifle for the following reasons:

1. They are available locally.
2. They usually cost less than other brands.
3. They always work!

I have used winchester primers at times in my rifles, but couldn't tell any difference in performance. I don't have a chrono, so hard to say what difference in velocity the primer had, if any.
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Old October 18, 2008, 10:39 AM   #16
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I also use wolf primers. Lowest cost that I have found. They go bang every time.
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Old October 18, 2008, 12:48 PM   #17
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I reload the 40 S&W. I use everything I find at a good price but like Federal SPP, they seem a little softer and never had a problem with them. For brass the R-P brass seems better especially for once fired/muti fired brass. The powder is Hodgdon Longshot, I find it to be clean, accurate and gives good speed and lower chamber pressure for my loads.
Everybody has different likes and dislikes especially for reloading or ammo.
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Last edited by DWARREN123; October 19, 2008 at 02:11 PM.
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Old October 18, 2008, 01:47 PM   #18
rn22723
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People who think they know obviously need to realize how things do interact and change things.

Fed primers are about the most sensitive primers on the market. Hence why do people with tuned S&W revolvers get married to them?
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Old October 18, 2008, 04:53 PM   #19
RGS
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"People who cut mainspring coils, use reduced springs, or use ancient worn out mainsprings, will often complain of misfires with CCI pistol primers. I have no sympathy for those who reduce the ignition reliablity of their ignition system, and then pass the blame to reloading components."

Or they simply pull the trigger again and fire the next cylinder. No sympathy required.
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Old October 18, 2008, 08:28 PM   #20
mrawesome22
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I was complaining about CCI SR mag primers. The lot I bought stunk.
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Old October 19, 2008, 04:29 AM   #21
458winshooter
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Interchanging

Their was a very good article in one of hodgon's reloading manuals a couple years back on just swaping out primers indescriminately.If memory serves me right their pressure test barrels indicated that pressure changes were anywhere from 1500 to 5000 psi depending on what cartridge was being tested at that time.So I always start low and work up when I attempt to build a load that I do not have the exact components as listed.I have 19 rifles and 9 pistols in my collection and reload for almost all of them,but none of them use a small rifle mag primer like the CCI 450.Everything I load for takes a LR,SP,or LP primer so for now those 450's will just gather dust.According To this article to change the primer you are changing the burn time of the powder charge (a hotter primer causes a hotter spark and thus a faster burning of the powder).In a small way thats like changing the burn rate of the powder to a faster powder.And thus your pressure will change.The article was written by a gun writter named Rick Jamison.Anyway my original post was simply to ask what brand do you prefer or is it a matter of what is handy.
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Old October 19, 2008, 03:37 PM   #22
rn22723
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I have always subscribed to the idea that if you change a parameter you have to rework the load again.

Case capacity in larger cartridges can vary from one MFG to another.
And, so this can alter pressures quickly.

And, so one has has to respect reloading data sources and not interpolate data. Follow the data source specs and work up loads safely!
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Old October 19, 2008, 04:37 PM   #23
ShootingNut
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Just Me

Talking handgun loads.I believe if one stays within the "start" and "max" powder load for a given situation, you are fine. Myself, I always lean towards the "start" charge. Even if you should use another brand of primer MEANT for that caliber, no problem.
I know nothing about loading for rifles, may very well be a different situation.
No doubt some may disagree with me, and say I'm posting "dumb ass statements".
SN
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