Working out the kinks, Dillon Vs Mixed Range brass 9 mm

[Venti30]

Before getting into reloading, I had not considered the difference between case manufacturers. I reload off of mixed range brass and have noticed slight variations in case weight, wall thickness, and in the case of my Dillon that wall thickness shows up when belling the case in the powder station.

I was belling too much at first, but now have it down to .005". I still find however that some cases still "stick" or wedge to the powder funnel mouth.

It'll be a few days before I run any more batches, but I was curious if anyone has already done what Im about to do: Slow and studiously make a log of cases/headstamp/brands that stick to my powder funnel.

I do by the way, lube my cases. Typical bullets being made are 9mm/115 grain.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

[condor bravo]

I have no such trouble with 9mm and Dillon 550, using Federal cases. But not sure what you mean by sticking to the powder funnel. Does that mean it is somewhat difficult to pull certain cases back from the powder funnel after dispensing powder? Perhaps those cases are heavier with thicker sidewalls and are sized more than others.

[Mobuck]

I've sorted hundreds of pounds of 9mm brass while casually watching TV. It's not that difficult and worth the effort.

[RickD1225]

Maybe the powder funnel mouth needs to be polished a little.

[Venti30]

Condor,

What I mean is that when I cycle the press, sometimes on the press down stroke I was experiencing a thud, and stuck feel as the shell plate was lowered. It took a considerable moment of force in the lever to freee it, and the hang up was the case getting stuck in the powder funnel. The initial cause was I had the powder die assembly set too low, creating at or beyond .020” of bell. I walked the die up, until I could just seat a bullet without difficulty and that solved most of it, but I find that intermittently, there are 1 in 10 cases that still hang just a little bit on the powder funnel itself. My bell currently is only .005” greater than the case.

Rickd,
I removed the powder funnel from the die, and used very light sandpaper to remove the ridge that built up which looked to be brass and carbon. Again, I think a lot of that was my initially over aggressive bell. I’ve got a dremel with a polishing wheel, I may just try that next.

[rock185]

Venti30, I initially used RCBS gear, then Dillon 550 equipment for years, and more recently a Square Deal B. Occasionally, I had a case stick as you describe. Thing is, with range pick up brass, all bets are off. You can visually inspect it, separate it by headstamp,etc. but you never really know it's history. Loaded once previously, or 25 times? Bulged from poor case support and/or high pressures? Cases work hardened from multiple firing and resizing? Primer pockets loose, case cracked? This, along with the variations in wall thickness and case weight you mention.

I guess you can tell I'm not a big fan of range pick up brass. I just don't use the stuff, and especially wouldn't recommend it to someone who is relatively new to reloading. It's a little more expensive, but life is easier for reloaders using new, or once fired brass from firing factory ammo. Then your reloads can be more consistent, your process more trouble free, and you can keep track of exactly how many times your cases have been reloaded, no guessing......ymmv

[74A95]

Venti30, how are you cleaning your brass?

[Venti30]

My home range is indoors, and very few people collect brass. A lot of blazer gets sold across their back counter, and left on the floor. Probably half of what I pick up is my brass, the other half is true once fired.

I've toyed with the idea of buying new nickel plated brass so I could easily identify "my brass" while at the range and only pick that up, but haven't researched the difference enough yet to do it.

My brass processing flows like this:
* Sort by sight during pick up, avoiding where I can the obvious no matches
* Sort at home using the colored plastic sorting trays (forgot makers name)
* Decap brass on my Dillon 650 (Dirty, and this bothers me)
* Wet tumble with Franklin Arsenal's wet tumbler and Stainless pins
* Dry in Franklin's multi tier brass dryer
* Store clean brass in sealed container until ready for production
** Side note, I also have a dry media tumbler, because I didn't know which would work best for me, so I get both. I now run completed ammo through it for about 15 minutes to remove the case lube film.

Because I dislike running uncleaned brass through my press, I have considered just not decapping before the cleaning process. I'm not a vanity bullet maker, so my goal isn't pristine and new looking brass, but rather quality and functionality for range ammo. My current line of thinking is that Id' rather keep the range dirt out of my press. There seem to be a wide variety of methods that all end with, do what works for you. I've even read about some folks not cleaning brass at all prior to reloading, which I don't judge their process, but I wouldn't want to handle that much carbon/dirt/possible lead along the way.

I won't clean any brass until I've got at least 1000 cases to do, because I don't have a dedicated wet area in my garage which is where I reload, so when I do it, I knock out as much as I can in the cleaning step.

[74A95]

The wet tumbling might contribute to the problem. It cleans the cases really well - they can look as clean as new brass - and many people who wet tumble report a similar issue with cases sticking to the flaring die.

Sticking tot he flaring die also happens with new brass.

Dry tumbling with the usual media often prevents the stickiness, because the remaining carbon and other junk 'lubes' the flaring die. When loading new brass, I often mix the new cases with old, dry tumbled cases to help prevent the new cases from sticking to the flaring die.

Try a batch of cases that have only been cleaned with the dry media and see if that fixes the problem. If it does, the wet tumbling is the problem.

[T. O'Heir]

"...difference between case manufacturers..." All American made brass is made to SAAMI spec. There are tolerances for the chambers of +.004", of course. And a Max and Minimum for case length.
The only part that'd matter when flaring is the lengths. Does sound like you're over complicating the entire process though. For example, there's no number for how much flare you put on. You put enough on so the bullet will sit in the case mouth unaided and no more.
"...dislike running uncleaned brass through my press..." That's what your tumbler is for. Cleans the cases. Cleaning cases doesn't require any liquid.

[jetav8r]

I believe you problem is your brass is too clean and thus sticks to the powder funnel. You can polish the funnel with something like Flitz which will help.

The method I use is to place my dirty brass into a solution of a few drops of Dawn dish ditergent along with a empty case full of Lemi Shine into some hot water for a few hours or over night. Then they are rinsed three times in fresh water and dried. When dry they are placed into the tumbler with a 50/50 mixture of corn cob and walnut media for a couple hours. The tumbler dust on the cases acts as a lubricant on the funnel. A used dryer sheet in the tumbler will cut down on the dust.

[Chainsaw.]

What press? On my 650 there is, for lack of a better word, a nozzle that funnels the powder into the case, if it us adjusted to far down it will stick into the case. This is NOT to be used as the bell expander. On the 650 belling is done in the next station. The B etc Im not sure.

[Venti30]

My press is a Dillon 650, and it’s my understanding that the powder funnel does indeed bell the case mouth, perhaps I have misunderstood but I believe that to be the case.

[condor bravo]

The 550 flares with the powder funnel, but as Chainsaw says, if flaring can be done at station 4, it sounds like you may just need to back off some with the powder funnel, flare at station 4, and that could cure the sticking problem.

[Tsquared]

I started sorting my brass about 10 years ago because of the stepped cases. Those stepped cases were Amerc, Maxxtech, Freedom Munitions, Xtreme, and Ammoland. Since I was sorting my cases I started loading batches of like headstamped ammo. It became very apparent that there were some headstamps that worked well and some were just this side of junk. I have also noticed some of the foreign headstamps to be a bit more grabby on the down stroke of the power /flare die.

Some of the headstamps I no longer bother with are CBC, TulAmmo, Wolf, B-West, SK, TCW, and TPZ as headstamps that get immediately tossed in the recycle bin - they all are very soft brass. I know some people that have loaded these headstamps but the headaches they can cause is just not worth it.

I will load Agila and Perfecta brass once to be used at an indoor range that has a slanted floor that tends to push most brass in front of the firing line. I have had an Agila case separate at the knurling on about the 5th reload. The Perfecta primer pocket gets too loose to hold a primer after the third or fourth reloading.

Every time I go to the range I know what brass I have loaded up. If anything other than that headstamp makes it back to my bench I will give it a close examination before I add it to my inventory.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by Venti30

My press is a Dillon 650, and it’s my understanding that the powder funnel does indeed bell the case mouth, perhaps I have misunderstood but I believe that to be the case.

You are correct. The powder funnel bells the case mouth.

[sevt_chevelle]

I run a double alpha powder die on my Dillon. It replaces the stock Dillon powder die, the difference is that the DAA is stepped like a Lyman M die.

https://www.doublealpha.biz/mr-bulle...-powder-funnel

[condor bravo]

Re: my post #14
If you need to flare at station 4, that would require a 9mm Lyman M die for flaring, about a $20 item, but worth it if you continue to use the problem brass. However, with powder thrown at station 3, the M die might dip too low into the case and contact the powder, perhaps compressing it.

Therefore, as 74A95 points out, flaring is accomplished with the powder funnel. The best solution might be to discard the problem brass and continue to flare with the powder funnel.

I guess another alternative would be to flare with the M die at station 3 and throw powder at station 4.

[sevt_chevelle]

Because I dislike running uncleaned brass through my press, I have considered just not decapping before the cleaning process. I'm not a vanity bullet maker, so my goal isn't pristine and new looking brass, but rather quality and functionality for range ammo. My current line of thinking is that Id' rather keep the range dirt out of my press. There seem to be a wide variety of methods that all end with, do what works for you. I've even read about some folks not cleaning brass at all prior to reloading, which I don't judge their process, but I wouldn't want to handle that much carbon/dirt/possible lead along the way.

This is what I do because I too hate running dirty brass through my 650. I run the brass through the FART without the SS pins for about 30 mins. This removes all the range stank, then I run the brass through the 650 with a universal decap die and then process the brass through the FART with SS pins.

How would one throw powder at station 4 on a Dillon 650?

The DAA powder funnel is a M die that replaces the factory Dillon powder funnel.
Another brand sold through ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/p/Dillon-Powder...1050/529689091

[condor bravo]

Perhaps you could not throw powder at station 4; just threw that out as a guess, trying to come up with possibilities. I guess I should stick with the 550.

[BigJimP]

Come on guys...

On a 650....:
station 2 ...seats the new primer, bells the case and dispenses powder...( not 3 or 4..)....
Station 3 ...is the powder check die
Station 4 seats the bullet...
Station 5 ...does the final sizing & crimp ..

It is possible his adjustment is over belling a case and causing the powder funnel to get stuck in the case....causing the hangup that he thinks is between sta 1 and 2...

I suggest checking the bell setting ( you just need enough to hold the bullet upright in sta 4... ).../ check the manual, for the right # of powder funnel for that caliber ( just in case there was a screwup...).

[Venti30]

Hi,

Really I’ve had two different things happening.

I was getting the “thud” and stuck Case on the powder funnel on the down motion of the press assembly. (Handle forward). Simple mechanical inspection of each case station I found that the only mechanical resistance present was that the case was literally stuck to the flare end of the powder funnel. For that I disassembled the powder die, found a buildup of brass/carbon forming a ring on the funnel’s outside surface where the case was sticking. Cleaned, lightly sanded, and adjusted the die to produce less bell solved most of that issue. Now, my bell is only about .005” compared to rest of the case body. That issue is resolved.

The other issue, was intermittently cases would come out (slip outward) of the shell plate; exiting station one during the indexing (rotating towards station 2 just enough to get caught between the shell plate and the spring arm of the primer delivery assembly. The case would wedge between the shell plate and the base of that metail spring arm. Not any interference with a die.

I didn’t really understand the comment about flaring at different station, knew it was @ the powder funnel so just figured another press was the example being offered or something.

Been a busy week, so I haven’t been able to play much, but I have cleaned/lubed as others have suggested and will see how she goes.

Thanks all

[jetinteriorguy]

I've had the same issue with my Lee powder through dies, and a quick polishing with my Dremel and some rouge on a soft pad has eliminated about 90% of it. But, I only tumble clean my brass. I don't bother sorting other than weeding out the cases with the inner step.

[Unclenick]

Venti30,

With the powder drop/operating tube cleaned off with a copper dissolving bore solvent and then with a solvent and dried, put some powdered graphite on a rag or patch and rub it in around the expanding and flaring area. Then put the rest of the powder in a pop bottle cap and dip every case mouth in it for a hundred rounds or so, and then one case every once in awhile to keep it refreshed. The sticking should stop. The expanding and flaring part of the drop/operating tube can also be treated with a permanent surface lubricating treatment like Shooter's Solutions Moly Fusion product.

Regarding the jamming problem, I don't have a 650, so I can't address it from experience, but I can tell you calling Dillon customer service has always proven to be a good experience for me. 800-762-3845.

[caz223]

I have a similar process.
I sort by headstamp, decap/resize in a Lee loader, clean in a wet process, dry, spritz with Hornady oneshot, then load as usual in my 550. I only load WIN cases in 9mm, and have a bucket of them, so I don't really need or want any other kind of brass. I'm not saying WIN is the best or anything, it's just very common, and seems to be the most uniform brass that's very commonly found on the range I frequent. Keep what works, trade off or junk the rest. If you have the same issue with sorted cleaned lubed brass, then I would further investigate, but I bet it goes away.