|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
February 28, 2018, 11:22 AM | #51 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 10, 2004
Location: Tioga co. PA
Posts: 2,647
|
Quote:
__________________
USNRET '61-'81 |
|
February 28, 2018, 11:31 AM | #52 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 2013
Location: Western slope of Colorado
Posts: 3,679
|
Quote:
|
|
February 28, 2018, 11:45 AM | #53 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
|
Dave's book is his opinion. There are refereed literature debates on this. He has some good stuff in his books but the link is not a slam dunk predictively.
I would note that if you buy the video game linkage, it is also claimed that the simple appearance of a gun (such as the EBR) will lead to you violence. Same theory of priming aggression. Thus, if you buy into the video game linkage as a way of trying to excuse the gun as causal in promoting violence, the literature catches you (if you buy that literature). The conclusion would be to ban both the games, videos and guns. Oops, pesky 1st and 2nd Amendments get in the way.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens |
February 28, 2018, 12:15 PM | #54 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 2, 2013
Posts: 975
|
Quote:
|
|
February 28, 2018, 01:49 PM | #55 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,846
|
Quote:
The simple truth, recognized but never admitted to, is that the ant-gun people are the tyranny that we must guard against. Both in and out of government. Matters not if their paycheck comes from tax dollars, or Bloomberg or Soros, it is their actions and words that matter. Just because they don't wear swastika armbands doesn't mean they aren't tyranny. As to personal protection, many don't recognize that as a right, or that using a gun to do it is a valid option. They believe we should not do it, that is what the police are for. And even the ones that do admit that while we shouldn't have to, we do need to use guns for protection sometimes, they argue that weapons like the AR are neither useful, nor suitable for self defense, and therefore should be banned. If you want to argue over the effect of violent video games, fine, but don't stop there. Recognize that it isn't just video games, its everything on a screen 24/7. Don't just look at games, look at everything seen on a screen, in home, in theaters, and today in your pocket and your car. Realize that on a subconscious level (and sometimes a conscious level) our "entertainment" are training films. The generations in the 1930s and 40s didn't have tv. They had radios, and those well off enough, might go to the movies, once a week, or so. By the 50s and 60s, TV got into many, then most homes, and it ran from around 6am to midnight, and was shut down the rest of the time. In the 70s, and on up, we got TV that never went off the air (cable, at first, now satellite, as well), Combine that with general greed, and the constant need to go "further" in nearly every aspect, but especially in violence, in order to attract viewers, and we have gotten past just realistic looking violence and into unrealistic fantasy graphic violence. And the public eats it up. People don't just fall down when shot in the movies today, they "splatter". One doesn't need any study to recognize that with many things, the more you are exposed to something, the more tolerant of it you become. Back ages ago, about the time we started getting 24/7 tv, someone did a "study", sorry I don't remember who or exactly when, I do remember one of the points they claimed was that the average American child had witnessed some 17,000 (seventeen thousand) murders on TV by the time they were 18. And the point was brought up pondering how this could possibly be a good thing for our society... Now, today with our 24/7 entertainment cycle (and I include the "news" in that) and video games, I'm confident the number of murders witnessed (and performed in games) is much higher. Yes, there are many other factors involved, I'm not discounting them, just not addressing them here. Just want to make the point that we have been "training" a couple of generations subtly (and sometimes not so subtly), via the TV & movie screen, and that has to have had an effect.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
February 28, 2018, 02:37 PM | #56 | |
Member
Join Date: February 19, 2018
Posts: 15
|
Quote:
|
|
February 28, 2018, 02:52 PM | #57 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 7,523
|
Quote:
Some people simply do not see armed schoolteachers as a viable solution for this problem, and there is going to be no easy way to convince them otherwise, because they simply won't accept the idea that any teacher's job is to double as an armed guard. They see school security as the sole responsibility of the police (which 44 AMP expounds upon, and I'll get to that shortly). Someone is likely to point out that the SRO at Parkland didn't intervene, and thus, an armed teacher could have intervened instead. (Future readers please note that not all of the relevant facts about the SRO's non-intervention are known as I write this.) IMHO this is NOT the unqualified propaganda victory for gun rights that some have posited. The counterargument is simple: if a trained cop wouldn't intervene, why should we expect a schoolteacher to do so? What if the teacher runs away too? What if the cops show up and shoot the teacher? Lastly, forcing intransigent opponents of teacher carry to tolerate it under legal sanction—even if it's voluntary on the individual teacher's level—will run into the same problems that I've argued about at length in the many CCW reciprocity threads: opponents are going to take it to court, where it could be tied up for years, and the end result is going to be a neutered version (e.g. all guns kept in a locker in the principal's office) and/or large-scale federal intervention (i.e. federal permits). IMHO the best we can hope for is that teacher carry will be allowed in more places under broader circumstances; it's simply not gonna happen everywhere, and there is no clear-cut statutory way to make it so. Quote:
The problem is that it's too easy for said bigots to label our arguments for "fighting against tyranny" as "gun nuts supporting illegal rebellion against a democratically elected government." This will ALWAYS make the insurrectionist argument in favor of the 2A hard to swallow for a large percentage of the U.S. population. Additionally, there will always be a subset of folks in this category who will NEVER accept ANYONE being armed for security reasons except for agents of the state. Sadly, many folks erroneously conflate tyranny with militarism, nationalism, and electoral suppression. (We see this writ large in the current U.S. political situation.) They fail to recognize that tyranny can exist independently of these things. "We the people" are perfectly capable of freely electing a tyrant and going along with his program when the conditions are right (and ironically, a prime example of this is today's Russia).
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak |
|||
February 28, 2018, 03:29 PM | #58 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 10, 2004
Location: Tioga co. PA
Posts: 2,647
|
Carguychris. You said it would be difficult to get it done. True. I don't see you finding fault with the basic idea other than getting it done. You start a "What if" argument". You can play that game until the cows come home. As I stated no one can say who will react correctly. The military gives extensive training and still when bullets fly some cannot perform. Say they need to be highly skilled is a straw man. THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES IN LIFE. There is no perfect solution.
__________________
USNRET '61-'81 |
February 28, 2018, 05:36 PM | #59 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 12, 2012
Location: Lometa, Texas
Posts: 342
|
Quote:
|
|
March 1, 2018, 01:26 PM | #60 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: September 12, 2002
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 5,313
|
Pond James Pond commented in post #16:
Quote:
Quote:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593749 The word 'polarized' is very over used. So is 'left' and 'right'. To me, it seems there's lots of folk that just want to fight and they want to win. I mean they REALLY want to FIGHT. They want to MAKE SOMEBODY do SOMETHING that THEY want them to do. They want to make SOMEBODY SUBMIT. In the thread above : Quote:
|
|||
March 1, 2018, 01:59 PM | #61 |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,846
|
There are still adults in the room, trouble is the shouting children do not listen to them.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
March 1, 2018, 02:04 PM | #62 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 22, 2016
Posts: 2,192
|
Quote:
|
|
March 1, 2018, 03:49 PM | #63 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 7,523
|
Quote:
While we're on the topic of political metaphors, there's also the stalking horse, which IMHO is the role the Parkland victims are currently playing on behalf of Everytown and the gun-control contingent in Congress.
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak |
|
|
|