split cases in 3006 Remington 700

Dannyl · May 11, 2009, 12:36 AM

Hi All,
On Saturday I fired some (10) reloaded rounds with my Remington 700. all were Federal cases, loaded with precisely 52 grains of a locally made powder (Somchem S365), CCI Primers and Speer 180Gr Spitzers. ( 52 grains is 1 grain short of max load for this combination). COL was 82 cm, with the bullet sitting slightly shy of the rifiling, not pressed against them. None of the cases showed any signs of over-pressure.

All 10 cases showed almost identical splits, from the mouth, all the length of the neck.

I have used this combination, and fired a few hundred of these recipe without ever seeing this, both with reloads and factory ammo. the rifle is well cared for and nothing has happened that could have influenced headspace.

A bit more detail about my reloading proecess: I first clean the cases in a vibrating tumbler, then lub them and do a full resize ( Hornady dies). I then clean the lub, clean the primer pocket and tumble them again for about 15 minutes. Following this I trim them with a Lyman trimmer, prime, put carefully weighed measures of Powder ( Dillon electronic scale) and seat the bullet. (I do not crimp)

One thing I did notice, is that all cases were about 62.50 mm long ( trimmed them a bit too much at the time, normally I trim to 63.30mm) could this be the problem?

Any suggestions or advise are welcome.

Regards,

Danny
Cape Town

has anyone of you experienced similar problems?

Bart B. · May 11, 2009, 07:29 AM

Danny, I think the case necks were too brittle. Such things happen all the time when case necks are resized such that they change a lot in diameters from firing to sizing then firing again.

I've had this happen once years ago. And I hear about it once in a while. Most military brass is way too brittle for reloading and was never intended to be reloaded. In the instances I know of this happening has been with military brass.

dahermit · May 11, 2009, 08:57 AM

The case neck splits you describe is typical for work-hardened cases.

How many times have these cases be reloaded? If it was the first time, then there was something wrong with that lot of brass. If they were reloaded several times, than nothing is wrong, it is what is normally expected.

F. Guffey · May 11, 2009, 09:58 AM

I have necked TW Federal Military brass FC and Federal cases up from 30/06 to 35 Whelen and down to 257 Roberts with out splitting, failure rate increases with cases that have been work harden by sizing and firing. IN the perfect there is the new unfired case, after that there is annealing and once fired, after that there is guessing. I do not hesitate necking once fired cases to 338 or 35 for fire forming with the establishment of a second shoulder, necking down. from start to finish, that is a work out for the brass, if not annealed, I should expect case splits when fired the second time.

By design and not related to what you are attempting, a chamber with a tight neck for the most part is by design, the tight neck does not allow the neck of the case to expand when the bullet is released, the benefit, the brass in the neck does not work (as much), if the case sizing is held to a minimum, the case last longer, I saw a case that had been fired so many times the owner had to carrie it in a sling, no stretch, just flow.

63.3 is above trim to length and below maximum length, the 62.5 are short but would not have an effect on splitting, the number of times the case has been fired would,

An opinion, close to max and seating the bullet close to the lands is a choice I do not exercise, with maximum loads I choose to back the bullet off the lands to give it a running start, there is something about maximum loads and a bullet setting at the lands I do not trust.

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

Annealing is a little more than waving the case over a fire and if the case gets too hot while holding in the hand, the case got too hot, meaning holding the case in the hand while annealing is not a good ideal, annealing is about time, temperature and travel.

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · May 11, 2009, 10:11 AM

Danny,

http://www.lasc.us/CartridgeCaseAnnealing.htm

F. Guffey

GeauxTide · May 11, 2009, 12:11 PM

1. If the cases fit your chamber, don't full length resize.
2. If the cases are nickel plated, I've found they neck split much quicker.

Shoney · May 11, 2009, 04:38 PM

There have been reports that some of the lots of Remington brass were brittle and neck splitting was common. I have seen this on several forums, where Rem brasswas splitting on the first firing.

I'm not sure of how the system works in South Africa, but I would first contact the people you bought the brass from, the wholesaler, then Remington and inquire about bad lots of brass.

F. Guffey · May 11, 2009, 06:11 PM

Danny said "Remington 700. all were Federal cases" .

Again, If I was curious I would neck the cases to 338 or 35 Whelen, I would own both set of dies even if I did not have rifles chambered for both.

Once fired, I have necked up 50 30/06 nickel plated cases to 35 Whelen to use as head space gages, 12 split, no splits with new unfired Federal, LC Match and Remington (R-P).

F. Guffey

Dannyl · May 12, 2009, 03:28 PM

Hi All,
First, thanks to all for your good advice.
I took the 10 split cases to "my regular" gunsmith, who determined that indeed they were brittle from being reloaded 3 times without annealing.

He also proceeded to show me how to anneal my cases.

Cheers,
DAnny

May 11, 2009, 12:36 AM	#1
Dannyl Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Cape Town - South Africa Posts: 627	split cases in 3006 Remington 700 Hi All, On Saturday I fired some (10) reloaded rounds with my Remington 700. all were Federal cases, loaded with precisely 52 grains of a locally made powder (Somchem S365), CCI Primers and Speer 180Gr Spitzers. ( 52 grains is 1 grain short of max load for this combination). COL was 82 cm, with the bullet sitting slightly shy of the rifiling, not pressed against them. None of the cases showed any signs of over-pressure. All 10 cases showed almost identical splits, from the mouth, all the length of the neck. I have used this combination, and fired a few hundred of these recipe without ever seeing this, both with reloads and factory ammo. the rifle is well cared for and nothing has happened that could have influenced headspace. A bit more detail about my reloading proecess: I first clean the cases in a vibrating tumbler, then lub them and do a full resize ( Hornady dies). I then clean the lub, clean the primer pocket and tumble them again for about 15 minutes. Following this I trim them with a Lyman trimmer, prime, put carefully weighed measures of Powder ( Dillon electronic scale) and seat the bullet. (I do not crimp) One thing I did notice, is that all cases were about 62.50 mm long ( trimmed them a bit too much at the time, normally I trim to 63.30mm) could this be the problem? Any suggestions or advise are welcome. Regards, Danny Cape Town has anyone of you experienced similar problems?

May 11, 2009, 04:38 PM	#7
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	There have been reports that some of the lots of Remington brass were brittle and neck splitting was common. I have seen this on several forums, where Rem brasswas splitting on the first firing. I'm not sure of how the system works in South Africa, but I would first contact the people you bought the brass from, the wholesaler, then Remington and inquire about bad lots of brass. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

May 12, 2009, 03:28 PM	#9
Dannyl Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Cape Town - South Africa Posts: 627	Split cases were brittle Hi All, First, thanks to all for your good advice. I took the 10 split cases to "my regular" gunsmith, who determined that indeed they were brittle from being reloaded 3 times without annealing. He also proceeded to show me how to anneal my cases. Cheers, DAnny

May 11, 2009, 07:29 AM	#2
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Danny, I think the case necks were too brittle. Such things happen all the time when case necks are resized such that they change a lot in diameters from firing to sizing then firing again. I've had this happen once years ago. And I hear about it once in a while. Most military brass is way too brittle for reloading and was never intended to be reloaded. In the instances I know of this happening has been with military brass.

May 11, 2009, 08:57 AM	#3
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	The case neck splits you describe is typical for work-hardened cases. How many times have these cases be reloaded? If it was the first time, then there was something wrong with that lot of brass. If they were reloaded several times, than nothing is wrong, it is what is normally expected.

May 11, 2009, 09:58 AM	#4
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I have necked TW Federal Military brass FC and Federal cases up from 30/06 to 35 Whelen and down to 257 Roberts with out splitting, failure rate increases with cases that have been work harden by sizing and firing. IN the perfect there is the new unfired case, after that there is annealing and once fired, after that there is guessing. I do not hesitate necking once fired cases to 338 or 35 for fire forming with the establishment of a second shoulder, necking down. from start to finish, that is a work out for the brass, if not annealed, I should expect case splits when fired the second time. By design and not related to what you are attempting, a chamber with a tight neck for the most part is by design, the tight neck does not allow the neck of the case to expand when the bullet is released, the benefit, the brass in the neck does not work (as much), if the case sizing is held to a minimum, the case last longer, I saw a case that had been fired so many times the owner had to carrie it in a sling, no stretch, just flow. 63.3 is above trim to length and below maximum length, the 62.5 are short but would not have an effect on splitting, the number of times the case has been fired would, An opinion, close to max and seating the bullet close to the lands is a choice I do not exercise, with maximum loads I choose to back the bullet off the lands to give it a running start, there is something about maximum loads and a bullet setting at the lands I do not trust. http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html Annealing is a little more than waving the case over a fire and if the case gets too hot while holding in the hand, the case got too hot, meaning holding the case in the hand while annealing is not a good ideal, annealing is about time, temperature and travel. F. Guffey

May 11, 2009, 10:11 AM	#5
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Danny, http://www.lasc.us/CartridgeCaseAnnealing.htm F. Guffey

May 11, 2009, 12:11 PM	#6
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	1. If the cases fit your chamber, don't full length resize. 2. If the cases are nickel plated, I've found they neck split much quicker.

May 11, 2009, 06:11 PM	#8
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Danny said "Remington 700. all were Federal cases" . Again, If I was curious I would neck the cases to 338 or 35 Whelen, I would own both set of dies even if I did not have rifles chambered for both. Once fired, I have necked up 50 30/06 nickel plated cases to 35 Whelen to use as head space gages, 12 split, no splits with new unfired Federal, LC Match and Remington (R-P). F. Guffey