CMP 1911's

[tsillik]

getting to be a long drawn out procedure, it looks like. terry

[1stmar]

I've bought 3 Garand's from CMP. They were all very reasonable IMO and in appropriate condition for their description and price. I think you would be hard pressed to find a better deal than a Garand from CMP in whichever condition you purchase.

I see no reason to believe 1911s will be any different.

[1stmar]

Just got this in email:


Concerning sale price of the 1911s: CMP has been selling M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, 1903s, .22s, etc. for 21+ years and we have never taken advantage of anyone. CMP is not going to start price gouging people now with the 1911s. The 1911s will be priced at fair market value just like our M1 Garands. The CMP's enabling legislation directs sales of items at fair market value.

[chrisp51]

The exception to the above is the auction site.

[WVsig]

The more I think about it depending on actually prices I and what grades are available I might throw my hat into the lottery.

[agtman]

Even assuming yours is one of the 10K lottery tickets that gets picked, man-oh-man, unless you've got deep pockets like a Trumpster for one of the uber-correct, uber-Collector Grades, the rest of CMP's 1911s sure look to be spendy range beaters.

Hopefully they'll be shooters, ... but still pricey.

[Slamfire]

I think the last I talked to a CMP shooter, who had an idea of what was going on, was this year at a Match. That CMP shooter said at that time, the CMP had not "seen" any M1911's, had no idea of condition. One thing to consider, Depot workers do not consider old rifles and pistols as sacred items. Its old metal to them. They will toss the stuff in shelters, and I mean toss, they really don't care if the shelter the weapon is stored in is leaking, and the items inside are rusting away, basically their attitude is the same as any wage grade individual attempting to maximize their salary and minimize their effort.

So don't get your hopes up about condition. I am certain once the CMP knows what it has, they will describe them well.

From what I heard about the 1911 inventory, many, most had been through a number of rebuilds since the last they were built, which was WW2, and the 1911's, as a population, were worn out. That is why in the 1970's the Army really, really had to buy new pistols. That took awhile but that is the path to the 9mm.

As for the CMP conditions. They would like to stay in business for the long run. Even with all the conditions they have created, some irresponsible individual is going to do something nut case with an CMP 1911 in the infinite future. It would be irresponsible for the CMP not to require back ground checks and whatever else they expect the future purchaser to do. I remember getting my one and only DCM Garand, and I had to go down the Police Station to find someone who could fingerprint me, as I had to turn in a fingerprint card with a bunch of other required DCM paperwork.

Now if you don't want to pay a preminium for a worn out piece of history, if instead you want a new GI Configuration 1911, let me suggest a Rock Island GI.





These are tighter than any GI 1911. In fact mine, is somewhere between Kimber and Les Baer tight, I am really impressed. These are made of alloy steels, instead of plain carbon, and Cabelas has them on sale for $399.00. With a $100 gift card, you could get a M1911 for just around $300.00. I don't see a reason to pay a romance tax, for an old piece of metal, just because it is old. I have been there, and guess what, you don't get what you pay for. You are paying a premium for emotions, because you have an emotional attachment to something that does not reciprocate your feelings. I would rather shoot the stuff and antiques fall apart with use. Your beneficiaries will be grateful, of course, if you left them a high value hunk of steel, but actually, they would be more grateful if you left them a big pile of cash instead of some firearm that will be difficult to sell.

So, stop your complaining. If you want a GI configuration 1911 to shoot, there are better, and cheaper options around. If you want a GI 1911, because of your feelings and emotions, there are some hoops to jump, and some cash to pay. Just wait and see what the CMP has to offer.

[RickB]

RIAs are of general "1911" shape, but so many of the contours are off, that while it will certainly satisfy anyone who wants to shoot a 1911-style pistol, if military appearance is important, then tracking down a Springfield G.I., discontinued some years ago, would provide a much better representation, appearance-wise, and much closer to government specs.
The Colt M1991A1 ("old roll mark" models from the '90s), even though it's in Series 80 form, is much closer to G.I. in appearance, and it's almost "the real thing".
Of course, either will cost closer to $600 than $300.

[Slamfire]

RIAs are of general "1911" shape, but so many of the contours are off, that while it will certainly satisfy anyone who wants to shoot a 1911-style pistol, if military appearance is important, then tracking down a Springfield G.I., discontinued some years ago, would provide a much better representation, appearance-wise, and much closer to government specs.

I earned my Distinguished Rifleman's with an M1a which was considered a "Service Rifle". From 10 feet away it was impossible to tell any difference between it, and the real M14's the Marine Team was using. Not that the appearance of any of these rifles made a difference on paper. Appearance of a firearm does not create holes on target, and only hits count.

I was not interested in the look, I wanted something that was tight and a thumb cocker. The original WW1 period M1911 was meant to be carried, round in the chamber, hammer down, in the flap holster. If you can get the hammer down, without dropping the hammer on the way, it is very hard to have an accidental discharge with the M1911. The pistol was meant to be thumb cocked upon presentation and the WW1 pistols had a short grip safety and wide hammer spurs to make the thing easy to thumb cock. The A1 model is not as easy to thumb cock, but it is a darn sight easier to thumb cock than 1911's with beavertails, and a darn sight easier to uncock, than a 1911 with a beavertail. If I carry this thing, I have the short period trigger, which is excellent for my stubby fingers, and I can lower the hammer easily, on a round in the chamber, and I can thumb cock it easily on presentation. Those were attributes I was looking for, plus a good trigger pull and mechanical fit.

The Colt M1991A1 ("old roll mark" models from the '90s), even though it's in Series 80 form, is much closer to G.I. in appearance, and it's almost "the real thing".
Of course, either will cost closer to $600 than $300.

I went to the local gun store and examined a new Colt GI Government model, I don't know the exact model number but it had an arched backstrap and looked GI configuration, and it was not $600 but around $850. It was new, and was looser than my Rock Island. I am certain it was a good gun, but as I pointed out to the guy behind the counter, I could buy his new Llama for $400, and it was tighter than the Colt.

[Jim Watson]

First, I think everybody is talking past each other.
There are three sides
Side 1 wants a GI pistol to shoot. They are better off like Slamfire, buying a copy.
Side 2 wants a GI pistol as a significant historical artifact and collector's item. They will get their wish. Condition is not now predictable but at least they won't be cheated like so many are in the current market.
Side 3 does not see the point in overpriced Army surplus.

Comment on condition. Repeat, I don't know if the 1033 police militarization program is drawing from the same pool as the CMP, but we can hope they are. Those guns are nice.

Second, I wonder why the copiers cannot copy.

[RickB]

I'd be very interested to know if the guns are going to be as-is, or, will they be inspected, parts replaced, etc., to bring them to a specific standard, as is apparently done with CMP Garands?

If I were spending north of $1000 on a pistol made in 1943, I would not want the original slide stop replaced with a cast part from the '70s because the pin on the old one didn't gauge correctly.

I'd rather take my chances with the gun's original condition, than risk losing original parts in an attempt to make the gun "serviceable".
The M1911 that my dad bought in the '60s was not guaranteed in any way, it was sold more like scrap than as a weapon that functioned to a standard.

[reddog81]

Originally Posted by RickB

I'd be very interested to know if the guns are going to be as-is, or, will they be inspected, parts replaced, etc., to bring them to a specific standard, as is apparently done with CMP Garands?

I'm sure they will replace anything they think needs to be replaced. As you noted the rub is that the new owner would probably prefer the pistol in whatever condition the pistol is in right now i.e. the condition it is in when it leaves the military's possession.

I purchased a service grade Garand a couple years back and i'm sure it looked the same as the day it was arsenal refurbished in the 1950's other than a brand new stock. I would have rather had the original stock regardless of the condition. I can always buy a new stock at a later date, but can never replace the original

[highpower3006]

First, I think everybody is talking past each other.
There are three sides
Side 1 wants a GI pistol to shoot. They are better off like Slamfire, buying a copy.
Side 2 wants a GI pistol as a significant historical artifact and collector's item. They will get their wish. Condition is not now predictable but at least they won't be cheated like so many are in the current market.
Side 3 does not see the point in overpriced Army surplus.

Comment on condition. Repeat, I don't know if the 1033 police militarization program is drawing from the same pool as the CMP, but we can hope they are. Those guns are nice.

Second, I wonder why the copiers cannot copy.

Anyone that just wants a gun to shoot is never going to buy one of these pistols. To them history is meaningless and if they think that a Rock Island is a good enough substitute they will always be unwilling to spend the $ that it takes to get a real GI 1911. For others, the chance to get a genuine US Property 1911 is the paramount consideration, not the extra dollars they will cost.

IMO, if you want a nice 1911-A1 that shares the lineage of the GI guns and you are too poor, or cheap, to spend the dollars on a USGI pistol, get a Colt Government Model. They are really not all that expensive, new or used, I have one made in 2012 that I bought new for $750 and it is a pretty darn nice pistol.

I have guns that I picked up many years ago and at the time I bought them, I paid the going rate, sometimes at or near top dollar. Now several years later, the money I spent seems like a paltry amount compared to the enjoyment they have given me.

I find that I just am not happy owing an imitation of the real thing. I have tried to be satisfied with reproduction guns and while they may look the same, they are not and never will be. If you just want to shoot a 1911, there are a plethora of makers out there. But if you want a real GI 1911, the market is limited and that is what is driving the prices.

Kind of like owning a genuine 427 Cobra vs having a replica, it may look the same but it isn't and all the excuses aside, the real deal is going to be worth a little more each year, while the replica is just a used car.

I should add that I am not personally in the market for one of these CMP guns as I currently have seven US 1911's and unless I find one that is significantly better or different than what I already have, I won't be buying one.

[DaleA]

This site constantly amazes me with the wealth of information and the well thought out posts.

Post #57 by Slamfire said everything I'd say on the issue so just go back and read it again. Plus he managed to post some nice photo's which I might or might not be able to do but would take me a loooonnnngggggg time.

For personal use if I was buying today I get the Springfield Armory Range Officer, full size, in, of course, .45 ACP. My use would be as a range gun and home defense. For carry I'd opt for something other than a 1911. YMMV.

[Model12Win]

Originally Posted by Slamfire

I think the last I talked to a CMP shooter, who had an idea of what was going on, was this year at a Match. That CMP shooter said at that time, the CMP had not "seen" any M1911's, had no idea of condition. One thing to consider, Depot workers do not consider old rifles and pistols as sacred items. Its old metal to them. They will toss the stuff in shelters, and I mean toss, they really don't care if the shelter the weapon is stored in is leaking, and the items inside are rusting away, basically their attitude is the same as any wage grade individual attempting to maximize their salary and minimize their effort.

So don't get your hopes up about condition. I am certain once the CMP knows what it has, they will describe them well.

From what I heard about the 1911 inventory, many, most had been through a number of rebuilds since the last they were built, which was WW2, and the 1911's, as a population, were worn out. That is why in the 1970's the Army really, really had to buy new pistols. That took awhile but that is the path to the 9mm.

As for the CMP conditions. They would like to stay in business for the long run. Even with all the conditions they have created, some irresponsible individual is going to do something nut case with an CMP 1911 in the infinite future. It would be irresponsible for the CMP not to require back ground checks and whatever else they expect the future purchaser to do. I remember getting my one and only DCM Garand, and I had to go down the Police Station to find someone who could fingerprint me, as I had to turn in a fingerprint card with a bunch of other required DCM paperwork.

Now if you don't want to pay a preminium for a worn out piece of history, if instead you want a new GI Configuration 1911, let me suggest a Rock Island GI.

These are tighter than any GI 1911. In fact mine, is somewhere between Kimber and Les Baer tight, I am really impressed. These are made of alloy steels, instead of plain carbon, and Cabelas has them on sale for $399.00. With a $100 gift card, you could get a M1911 for just around $300.00. I don't see a reason to pay a romance tax, for an old piece of metal, just because it is old. I have been there, and guess what, you don't get what you pay for. You are paying a premium for emotions, because you have an emotional attachment to something that does not reciprocate your feelings. I would rather shoot the stuff and antiques fall apart with use. Your beneficiaries will be grateful, of course, if you left them a high value hunk of steel, but actually, they would be more grateful if you left them a big pile of cash instead of some firearm that will be difficult to sell.

So, stop your complaining. If you want a GI configuration 1911 to shoot, there are better, and cheaper options around. If you want a GI 1911, because of your feelings and emotions, there are some hoops to jump, and some cash to pay. Just wait and see what the CMP has to offer.

Yep. Let the collectors collect, I've got this uncollectible Springfield that shoots great: