Revolver recoil question, health related

Stainless_Steel · December 1, 2016, 03:53 AM

Hi!

I've been shooting recreationally for a couple years but couldn't since 2012 due to health issues affecting my tendons.
I decided to get back into it a couple months back and started with .22LR, but that got uninteresting pretty quickly for whatever reason.

Last week I tried a
686 6inch shooting Magtech .38SPL (158 Grain, 744FPS), and a
HK P30 shooting Magtech 9mm (124 Grain, 1109FPS).

The reason why I'm listing the ammo I shot is that the 686 felt really nice and soft shooting without issues and the P30 on the other hand had my right rotator cuff sore for 4 days or so (my weak tendons being the reason).
Since I'm in search for a new handgun right now I'd like to get recommendations from guys who shot the models I'm looking for and maybe even the 2 above.

Revolver I consider buying are the 627, 625 if I buy new or an used Colt King Cobra which is currently available at my gun store.
The 627 and the CKK should be fine shooting .38 specials but what about the 625? Would that be even more than the P30 in recoil?
(Other guns I like are the 1911 in .45 and the CZ75 in 9mm, and I might buy one of them as my 2nd gun next to the revolver.)

Excuse the long intro and stupid questions but that's what is floating in my head right now and as you may know if health is an issue one's ambitions don't always match what's realistically possible I guess. Just checking what you guys are thinking.

SS

thibaultfelix40 · December 1, 2016, 04:38 AM

I have a messed up trigger hand due to an old injury. I have no idea if my experiences will relate to yours. My CZ 75 is a heavy large pistol and pretty much of a recoil pussycat with 115 standard loads. My old Ruger Police Service Six is ok with 38 special loads. My S&W 3" Model 60 J frame is also OK with 38's. I change my revolvers to rubber grips designed to reduce recoil. For modern revolvers I like steel frames and 38's in Ruger SP 101, J,K and L frame Smiths, and GP Rugers. The CZ 75 is the last large pistol that I am planing on buying and I have trouble recommending semiautos because they can be hard to rack and fill magazines. I do find Tokarevs pretty easy to live with.

Stainless_Steel · December 1, 2016, 04:45 AM

You mean that the CZ75 had a lot of recoil when you tried it?

SS

thibaultfelix40 · December 1, 2016, 05:23 AM

I left out a little stuff. Look for lighter bullets. I usually shoot cheap 125-135 grain semiwadcutters in 38. If you can find or reload them, before the crunch there were 110 grain SWC's and even 100 grain wad cutters. Heavier guns help control recoil but long barrels can add to recoil by increasing velocity. You might have a look at the Armscorp 206, a Colt like 6 shot 38 snubby that is a reliable steel brick, heavy but effective and cheap- $250 NIB. Rubber recoil controlling grips for the Colt Detective Special sorta fit the Armscorp. Some things I have tried are shooting double action which uses the strength of the index finger to add to grip. I have used both index fingers together to pull stiff double action triggers. This lets me shoot Nagant revolvers double action. It also seems to reduce the tendancy to swing the revolver. Humans control their index fingers together in many ordinary tasks.

1stmar · December 1, 2016, 05:49 AM

my guess is it will be easier to find light 38 loads then light 45 loads and for that reason the 686 or any 357 would be better. If you reload you can go either way. 38s out of a heavy 357 are pretty soft, especially wadcutters.

AzShooter · December 1, 2016, 06:34 AM

I'd get the 627. You can even get 148 wadcutters for it for some really light loads. 158 grain RN are great and American Eagle are not too hard to find and work great in my 627s.

I'd stay away from the 625. .45s have a lot of recoil and your muscles will definitely hurt after a box of ammo. If you reload you can get away with some real light loads like 230s with 3.0 grains of Bullseye. Makes it like shooting a .22. \

If you don't reload it's hard to find a light shooting .45.

FITASC · December 1, 2016, 08:03 AM

The heaviest gun with the slowest and lightest payload will give you the least amount of actual recoil. A gun that fits - in this case a handgun with grips that truly fit your hand - will give you the lightest perceived/felt recoil, aka "kick".
IMO, a 6" L or N frame shooting 38s with grips that fit your hands will be the best option from a recoil perspective.

Jim Watson · December 1, 2016, 09:10 AM

How are your hands? Grip fit matters and an N frame or big Colt may not be as comfortable as the K/L frame stocks.
If the recoil is jarring all the way back into your rotator cuff, but your hands are not sore, then grip fit may not be the problem I thought it was.

Steel is the answer. A heavy gun will have less recoil than a light one.

I cannot recommend a .45 unless you handload and can adjust the velocity/power factor/recoil to a comfortable level... which I do.
I am at present shooting mostly 9mm 1911 types and some very mild .45s.

Don P · December 1, 2016, 09:49 AM

I concur ^^^^^^ my thought would be to stay with the 38 spl. As Jim stated hand loads can be loaded down to reduce recoil. Something you most probably will not find in off the shelf factory rounds. My 45 acp loads are down loaded but the recoil is still there to a degree.

jetinteriorguy · December 1, 2016, 10:28 AM

If you want a truly soft shooting revolver go for a S&W model 14 with 148gr wadcutters. Extremely accurate, low recoil, and if you reload economical. Personally to get softer shooting ammo your best bet is to handload so you can tailor loads to suit your needs. Loading the .38 SP is the easiest, simplest cartridge their is. If all you do is load for .38 it doesn't take all that much of an investment.

Model12Win · December 1, 2016, 10:08 PM

If you are looking for a very soft shooting revolver, don't overlook a Webley Mk IV in .38/200 (.38 S&W):

Stainless_Steel · December 2, 2016, 12:59 AM

I'm leaning towards the 627 or 929.

The 929 would be convenient if I bought a CZ or 1911 in 9mm later on, which is very likely to happen if I can handle it.
Will the difference in recoil between a 9mm and .38SPL even be noticeable in a N-frame?

SS

Jim March · December 2, 2016, 01:13 AM

There's a table on page 11 of this document that might help, showing the various power levels of various types of ammo and their results for *most* folks in the 38Spl/357 power spectrum:

http://tinyurl.com/revocheck

This is geared more towards defensive carry than a range/target gun but I think a lot of the concepts will transfer over. You'll at least have a better idea what the power spectrum looks like from the point of view of both gun and ammo.

b.thomas · December 2, 2016, 04:33 AM

Recoil isn't my problem but trigger pull is. Arthritis is one of the reasons I only shoot single action with both my autos and revolvers. Lucky for me, both my autos are hammer fired and are da/sa, like my revolvers.

*life is much simple when your pain free.............even if it's a little bit!

pete2 · December 3, 2016, 12:45 PM

I shoot revolvers and autos. Arthritis in my hands. The .38 in an L frame guns is about the easiest shooting after the .22. A 9 MM in a 1911 gun is soft. The 625 revolver kicks harder than a 1911 gun. I still shoot the 625 some on a good day, I really like it. A trigger job on the revolvers is a must, you may have to use Federal primers but it's worth the effort to reload for it. If I'm not going to shoot D/A I'd rather shoot the 1911 guns. Getting old makes life harder but life is still good.

Andy Blozinski · December 3, 2016, 03:47 PM

Try a Chiappa Rhino. Firing .38s from these is about like firing a .22 on recoil.

Jim Watson · December 3, 2016, 04:59 PM

Pulling the trigger is about like a King of Crunch, too.

reddog81 · December 3, 2016, 05:23 PM

Is there any chance you can reload your rounds? Most factory stuff falls on the warm side of the spectrum. If you can reload it is easy to produce .38 or .45 loads that feel like you're shooting a .22. Even in auto-loaders it's easy to make stuff that's noticeably softer shooting than any factory load.

ammo.crafter · December 3, 2016, 05:31 PM

I know the feeling...rotator cuff, multiple trigger finger releases, tenonitis, etc.

I find that I have no problem shooting my Colt 1911 but 9mm Hi Power is a problem with its sharp recoil. The 45 is more of a push rather than the c rack of the 9mm.

I would think ammo choice would be very helpful.
do you reload?

Malamute · December 3, 2016, 05:40 PM

The 38 special 148 gr mid range wadcutters are pretty soft in any full size 38 or 357. In an N frame they will be very soft, though will also be so in a 586/686.

If your local stores don't carry the 148 gr wadcutter (NOT the same as a semi-wadcutter) then you should be able to order them in bulk online and delivered to your door.

Stainless_Steel · December 4, 2016, 12:11 AM

I never reloaded but I may start to now since so many of you recommended it to me here.
Time to read up how to do it properly.

SS

James K · December 4, 2016, 12:14 AM

How are you able to handle weight? Weak tendons often limit the weight one can support in handling the gun normally, even if it is fired from a rest.

Jim

Stainless_Steel · December 4, 2016, 12:18 AM

The heaviest I tried recently was a 6 inch 686 which was fine for about 50 rounds before I started feeling the weight being an issue.
I go shooting 4 times a month if time allows it so 50 rounds is about the maximum I care to shoot per session.

SS

cslinger · December 4, 2016, 01:25 AM

A stock Ruger GP100 seems to be about the best balance of feel, versatility, recoil, capability cost etc.

The stock grips with or without the wood inserts are very good. The weight is good. The balance with the 4 inch barrel is great. Combine all that with the ability to buy or load from mild powder puff to crazy cruise missile and I think you have a great platform.

jetinteriorguy · December 4, 2016, 08:13 PM

Hey SS, if you live anywhere in the Northern Virginia area I'd like to invite you to come with me to my range as my guest. You'd be more than welcome to try some 148gr wadcutters from both my Model 14 or my Model 67. If this seems like it would work, I'd gladly help you learn how to reload these on a budget

December 1, 2016, 03:53 AM	#1
Stainless_Steel Junior Member Join Date: November 30, 2016 Posts: 8	Revolver recoil question, health related Hi! I've been shooting recreationally for a couple years but couldn't since 2012 due to health issues affecting my tendons. I decided to get back into it a couple months back and started with .22LR, but that got uninteresting pretty quickly for whatever reason. Last week I tried a 686 6inch shooting Magtech .38SPL (158 Grain, 744FPS), and a HK P30 shooting Magtech 9mm (124 Grain, 1109FPS). The reason why I'm listing the ammo I shot is that the 686 felt really nice and soft shooting without issues and the P30 on the other hand had my right rotator cuff sore for 4 days or so (my weak tendons being the reason). Since I'm in search for a new handgun right now I'd like to get recommendations from guys who shot the models I'm looking for and maybe even the 2 above. Revolver I consider buying are the 627, 625 if I buy new or an used Colt King Cobra which is currently available at my gun store. The 627 and the CKK should be fine shooting .38 specials but what about the 625? Would that be even more than the P30 in recoil? (Other guns I like are the 1911 in .45 and the CZ75 in 9mm, and I might buy one of them as my 2nd gun next to the revolver.) Excuse the long intro and stupid questions but that's what is floating in my head right now and as you may know if health is an issue one's ambitions don't always match what's realistically possible I guess. Just checking what you guys are thinking. SS

December 1, 2016, 04:38 AM	#2
thibaultfelix40 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2011 Posts: 154	I have a messed up trigger hand due to an old injury. I have no idea if my experiences will relate to yours. My CZ 75 is a heavy large pistol and pretty much of a recoil pussycat with 115 standard loads. My old Ruger Police Service Six is ok with 38 special loads. My S&W 3" Model 60 J frame is also OK with 38's. I change my revolvers to rubber grips designed to reduce recoil. For modern revolvers I like steel frames and 38's in Ruger SP 101, J,K and L frame Smiths, and GP Rugers. The CZ 75 is the last large pistol that I am planing on buying and I have trouble recommending semiautos because they can be hard to rack and fill magazines. I do find Tokarevs pretty easy to live with. __________________ olafhardt

December 1, 2016, 05:23 AM	#4
thibaultfelix40 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2011 Posts: 154	I left out a little stuff. Look for lighter bullets. I usually shoot cheap 125-135 grain semiwadcutters in 38. If you can find or reload them, before the crunch there were 110 grain SWC's and even 100 grain wad cutters. Heavier guns help control recoil but long barrels can add to recoil by increasing velocity. You might have a look at the Armscorp 206, a Colt like 6 shot 38 snubby that is a reliable steel brick, heavy but effective and cheap- $250 NIB. Rubber recoil controlling grips for the Colt Detective Special sorta fit the Armscorp. Some things I have tried are shooting double action which uses the strength of the index finger to add to grip. I have used both index fingers together to pull stiff double action triggers. This lets me shoot Nagant revolvers double action. It also seems to reduce the tendancy to swing the revolver. Humans control their index fingers together in many ordinary tasks. __________________ olafhardt

December 1, 2016, 08:03 AM	#7
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	The heaviest gun with the slowest and lightest payload will give you the least amount of actual recoil. A gun that fits - in this case a handgun with grips that truly fit your hand - will give you the lightest perceived/felt recoil, aka "kick". IMO, a 6" L or N frame shooting 38s with grips that fit your hands will be the best option from a recoil perspective. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

December 1, 2016, 09:49 AM	#9
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	I concur ^^^^^^ my thought would be to stay with the 38 spl. As Jim stated hand loads can be loaded down to reduce recoil. Something you most probably will not find in off the shelf factory rounds. My 45 acp loads are down loaded but the recoil is still there to a degree. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

December 1, 2016, 04:45 AM	#3
Stainless_Steel Junior Member Join Date: November 30, 2016 Posts: 8	You mean that the CZ75 had a lot of recoil when you tried it? SS

December 1, 2016, 05:49 AM	#5
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	my guess is it will be easier to find light 38 loads then light 45 loads and for that reason the 686 or any 357 would be better. If you reload you can go either way. 38s out of a heavy 357 are pretty soft, especially wadcutters.

December 1, 2016, 06:34 AM	#6
AzShooter Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Surprise, Az. Posts: 766	I'd get the 627. You can even get 148 wadcutters for it for some really light loads. 158 grain RN are great and American Eagle are not too hard to find and work great in my 627s. I'd stay away from the 625. .45s have a lot of recoil and your muscles will definitely hurt after a box of ammo. If you reload you can get away with some real light loads like 230s with 3.0 grains of Bullseye. Makes it like shooting a .22. \ If you don't reload it's hard to find a light shooting .45.

December 1, 2016, 09:10 AM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	How are your hands? Grip fit matters and an N frame or big Colt may not be as comfortable as the K/L frame stocks. If the recoil is jarring all the way back into your rotator cuff, but your hands are not sore, then grip fit may not be the problem I thought it was. Steel is the answer. A heavy gun will have less recoil than a light one. I cannot recommend a .45 unless you handload and can adjust the velocity/power factor/recoil to a comfortable level... which I do. I am at present shooting mostly 9mm 1911 types and some very mild .45s.

December 1, 2016, 10:28 AM	#10
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,176	If you want a truly soft shooting revolver go for a S&W model 14 with 148gr wadcutters. Extremely accurate, low recoil, and if you reload economical. Personally to get softer shooting ammo your best bet is to handload so you can tailor loads to suit your needs. Loading the .38 SP is the easiest, simplest cartridge their is. If all you do is load for .38 it doesn't take all that much of an investment.

December 1, 2016, 10:08 PM	#11
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	If you are looking for a very soft shooting revolver, don't overlook a Webley Mk IV in .38/200 (.38 S&W):

December 2, 2016, 12:59 AM	#12
Stainless_Steel Junior Member Join Date: November 30, 2016 Posts: 8	I'm leaning towards the 627 or 929. The 929 would be convenient if I bought a CZ or 1911 in 9mm later on, which is very likely to happen if I can handle it. Will the difference in recoil between a 9mm and .38SPL even be noticeable in a N-frame? SS

December 2, 2016, 01:13 AM	#13
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	There's a table on page 11 of this document that might help, showing the various power levels of various types of ammo and their results for most folks in the 38Spl/357 power spectrum: http://tinyurl.com/revocheck This is geared more towards defensive carry than a range/target gun but I think a lot of the concepts will transfer over. You'll at least have a better idea what the power spectrum looks like from the point of view of both gun and ammo. __________________ Jim March

December 2, 2016, 04:33 AM	#14
b.thomas Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Posts: 461	Recoil isn't my problem but trigger pull is. Arthritis is one of the reasons I only shoot single action with both my autos and revolvers. Lucky for me, both my autos are hammer fired and are da/sa, like my revolvers. *life is much simple when your pain free.............even if it's a little bit!

December 3, 2016, 12:45 PM	#15
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	I shoot revolvers and autos. Arthritis in my hands. The .38 in an L frame guns is about the easiest shooting after the .22. A 9 MM in a 1911 gun is soft. The 625 revolver kicks harder than a 1911 gun. I still shoot the 625 some on a good day, I really like it. A trigger job on the revolvers is a must, you may have to use Federal primers but it's worth the effort to reload for it. If I'm not going to shoot D/A I'd rather shoot the 1911 guns. Getting old makes life harder but life is still good.

December 3, 2016, 03:47 PM	#16
Andy Blozinski Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2013 Posts: 525	Try a Chiappa Rhino. Firing .38s from these is about like firing a .22 on recoil.

December 3, 2016, 04:59 PM	#17
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Pulling the trigger is about like a King of Crunch, too.

December 3, 2016, 05:23 PM	#18
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	Is there any chance you can reload your rounds? Most factory stuff falls on the warm side of the spectrum. If you can reload it is easy to produce .38 or .45 loads that feel like you're shooting a .22. Even in auto-loaders it's easy to make stuff that's noticeably softer shooting than any factory load.

December 3, 2016, 05:31 PM	#19
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	ouch! I know the feeling...rotator cuff, multiple trigger finger releases, tenonitis, etc. I find that I have no problem shooting my Colt 1911 but 9mm Hi Power is a problem with its sharp recoil. The 45 is more of a push rather than the c rack of the 9mm. I would think ammo choice would be very helpful. do you reload? __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

December 3, 2016, 05:40 PM	#20
Malamute Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2004 Location: Rocky Mts Posts: 859	The 38 special 148 gr mid range wadcutters are pretty soft in any full size 38 or 357. In an N frame they will be very soft, though will also be so in a 586/686. If your local stores don't carry the 148 gr wadcutter (NOT the same as a semi-wadcutter) then you should be able to order them in bulk online and delivered to your door. __________________ "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

December 4, 2016, 12:11 AM	#21
Stainless_Steel Junior Member Join Date: November 30, 2016 Posts: 8	I never reloaded but I may start to now since so many of you recommended it to me here. Time to read up how to do it properly. SS

December 4, 2016, 12:14 AM	#22
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	How are you able to handle weight? Weak tendons often limit the weight one can support in handling the gun normally, even if it is fired from a rest. Jim

December 4, 2016, 12:18 AM	#23
Stainless_Steel Junior Member Join Date: November 30, 2016 Posts: 8	The heaviest I tried recently was a 6 inch 686 which was fine for about 50 rounds before I started feeling the weight being an issue. I go shooting 4 times a month if time allows it so 50 rounds is about the maximum I care to shoot per session. SS

December 4, 2016, 01:25 AM	#24
cslinger Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,045	A stock Ruger GP100 seems to be about the best balance of feel, versatility, recoil, capability cost etc. The stock grips with or without the wood inserts are very good. The weight is good. The balance with the 4 inch barrel is great. Combine all that with the ability to buy or load from mild powder puff to crazy cruise missile and I think you have a great platform. __________________ "Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?"

December 4, 2016, 08:13 PM	#25
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,176	Hey SS, if you live anywhere in the Northern Virginia area I'd like to invite you to come with me to my range as my guest. You'd be more than welcome to try some 148gr wadcutters from both my Model 14 or my Model 67. If this seems like it would work, I'd gladly help you learn how to reload these on a budget