Get out and Vote - Page 2

FloridaVeteran · November 7, 2012, 12:00 AM

Andrewsmith1 - my hat is off to you. That is going the extra mile, which I did not have to do.

Wife and I voted today at 1:00, 100% for NRA-approved candidates. Could not sleep for squat last night. Had to take a nap after voting. Tonight, now that it is too late for me to have any effect of any kind on all of this, I am limiting myself to jabbering away on Firing Line. I don't want to read or hear any "news" until tomorrow and I don't have any other blogs to go to. God help us. No offense to atheist shooters who voted right.

Rifleman1952 · November 7, 2012, 12:24 AM

It is 12:30 am EST and the major TV networks are all declaring Obama the winner. I just can't believe that this man, who holds such contempt for our Second Amendment, has been re-elected. Unbelievable. This is a sad day for America.

"I don't believe that people should be able to own guns."

Barak Obama, as quoted to John R. Lott, Jr., PhD, while both were working at the University of Chicago Law School in 1996. From the book "Debacle", by Grover G. Norquist and John R Lott, Jr., John Wiley & Sons, Inc.: Publisher

MLeake · November 7, 2012, 12:43 AM

Not to veer too deeply into the political, but...

1) They may well be right, but they are still "calling" the election with several states in close heats, and with a significant percentage of uncounted votes - remember Dewey Defeats Truman.

2) Assuming the call proves correct, it's interesting to note that while this would be the fifth Presidential election where the Electoral College winner is not the popular vote winner, it will be the first time that scenario involves the incumbent winning. The previous four cases have all involved a new candidate winning the EC vote but not the popular.

3) The House will remain under one party's control, and the Senate under the control of the other. Regardless of who won, tonight, the ability of the President to ramrod policy through is simply not there. The bigger threat, if there is one, will lie in bench nominations.

4) Whoever wins, expect significant gridlock.

zxcvbob · November 7, 2012, 12:49 AM

Quote:

The House will remain under one party's control, and the Senate under the control of the other. Regardless of who won, tonight, the ability of the President to ramrod policy through is simply not there. The bigger threat, if there is one, will lie in bench nominations.

He doesn't need the House to appoint judges or sign treaties, just the Senate.
I'm not sure Romney would have been all that much better.
Our only hope after Tampa was for the Senate to go R (then the prez didn't really matter) and that's not happening.
We are F'd.

Rifleman1952 · November 7, 2012, 12:52 AM

In all probability, Obama will nominate two more judges to the US Supreme Court. Those nominees, will undoubtedly be hostile towards the Second Amendment. Individual liberty lost last night.

MLeake · November 7, 2012, 01:04 AM

Rifleman, you assume the judges who retire (or are medically disabled) will be from our side of the fence.

If Ginsburg is replaced, it won't affect things (from an RKBA perspective).

Justices tend to try to avoid retiring when they think they will be replaced by those who would undo their decisions.

Just pray for the health of those Justices you would not want replaced by the current administration. Unless you are an atheist, in which case just keep your fingers crossed.

**Tom Servo** · November 7, 2012, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Justices tend to try to avoid retiring when they think they will be replaced by those who would undo their decisions.

Many folks assume that a new Justice will immediately cause the reversal of the Heller and McDonald decisions. That's simply not the case.

First off, the Court has to be called upon to make a decision. They don't just hand down opinions: there has to be a case requiring the resolution of a constitutional question. I'm not exactly sure what kind of case would lead to a challenge of Heller.

Second, the Court has to be careful not to reverse itself in short order. Doing so casts their authority into doubt. They reverse themselves slowly, if at all. Consider the 60-year gap between Plessy and Brown v. Board of Education.

Now, can they prevent further progress forward? Yep. But I wouldn't worry about anything going south in the near future.

MLeake · November 7, 2012, 01:15 AM

True, it may take a while.

Then again, Roberts was appointed while still relatively young, and likely to have two or three decades of potential time on the bench ahead of him.

Since then, Sotomayor was also relatively young when appointed.

I think this will become the new norm; if so, appointments are likely to have longer term effects. Still, Justices tend to try to remain on the bench until it is likely they will be replaced by somebody with a similar view of how things should work.

BarryLee · November 7, 2012, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Still, Justices tend to try to remain on the bench until it is likely they will be replaced by somebody with a similar view of how things should work.

Yes, very true, so where does this leave Kennedy?

jmortimer · November 7, 2012, 01:42 AM

"Many folks assume that a new Justice will immediately cause the reversal of the Heller"
Heller went 5-4 and Kagan and Sotomayor just make it the same. So if Kennedy gets replaced in the next fours years we are toast. It is naive to think otherwise. There will be no respect for precedent. International law will carry more weight. Continuous gun manufacturer backlogs will continue, and ammunition and component shortages will occur. And the executive orders are queued-up. It is way below average as they say.

**Tom Servo** · November 7, 2012, 01:53 AM

Quote:

There will be no respect for precedent. International law will carry more weight. Continuous gun manufacturer backlogs will continue, and ammunition and component shortages will occur. And the executive orders are queued-up.

Can you cite sources for any of this?

Al Norris · November 7, 2012, 02:08 AM

No need to cite sources.

The voting is done, even if the tallying goes on.

What's done is done and we will move on from this point forward.

I'm closing this before the politics gets someone banned.

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November 7, 2012, 12:00 AM	#26
FloridaVeteran Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2012 Location: Central Florida Posts: 399	Andrewsmith1 - my hat is off to you. That is going the extra mile, which I did not have to do. Wife and I voted today at 1:00, 100% for NRA-approved candidates. Could not sleep for squat last night. Had to take a nap after voting. Tonight, now that it is too late for me to have any effect of any kind on all of this, I am limiting myself to jabbering away on Firing Line. I don't want to read or hear any "news" until tomorrow and I don't have any other blogs to go to. God help us. No offense to atheist shooters who voted right.

November 7, 2012, 12:24 AM	#27
Rifleman1952 Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 284	It is 12:30 am EST and the major TV networks are all declaring Obama the winner. I just can't believe that this man, who holds such contempt for our Second Amendment, has been re-elected. Unbelievable. This is a sad day for America. "I don't believe that people should be able to own guns." Barak Obama, as quoted to John R. Lott, Jr., PhD, while both were working at the University of Chicago Law School in 1996. From the book "Debacle", by Grover G. Norquist and John R Lott, Jr., John Wiley & Sons, Inc.: Publisher

November 7, 2012, 12:43 AM	#28
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Not to veer too deeply into the political, but... 1) They may well be right, but they are still "calling" the election with several states in close heats, and with a significant percentage of uncounted votes - remember Dewey Defeats Truman. 2) Assuming the call proves correct, it's interesting to note that while this would be the fifth Presidential election where the Electoral College winner is not the popular vote winner, it will be the first time that scenario involves the incumbent winning. The previous four cases have all involved a new candidate winning the EC vote but not the popular. 3) The House will remain under one party's control, and the Senate under the control of the other. Regardless of who won, tonight, the ability of the President to ramrod policy through is simply not there. The bigger threat, if there is one, will lie in bench nominations. 4) Whoever wins, expect significant gridlock.

November 7, 2012, 12:52 AM	#30
Rifleman1952 Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 284	In all probability, Obama will nominate two more judges to the US Supreme Court. Those nominees, will undoubtedly be hostile towards the Second Amendment. Individual liberty lost last night.

November 7, 2012, 01:04 AM	#31
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Rifleman, you assume the judges who retire (or are medically disabled) will be from our side of the fence. If Ginsburg is replaced, it won't affect things (from an RKBA perspective). Justices tend to try to avoid retiring when they think they will be replaced by those who would undo their decisions. Just pray for the health of those Justices you would not want replaced by the current administration. Unless you are an atheist, in which case just keep your fingers crossed.

November 7, 2012, 01:15 AM	#33
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	True, it may take a while. Then again, Roberts was appointed while still relatively young, and likely to have two or three decades of potential time on the bench ahead of him. Since then, Sotomayor was also relatively young when appointed. I think this will become the new norm; if so, appointments are likely to have longer term effects. Still, Justices tend to try to remain on the bench until it is likely they will be replaced by somebody with a similar view of how things should work.

November 7, 2012, 01:42 AM	#35
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	"Many folks assume that a new Justice will immediately cause the reversal of the Heller" Heller went 5-4 and Kagan and Sotomayor just make it the same. So if Kennedy gets replaced in the next fours years we are toast. It is naive to think otherwise. There will be no respect for precedent. International law will carry more weight. Continuous gun manufacturer backlogs will continue, and ammunition and component shortages will occur. And the executive orders are queued-up. It is way below average as they say.

November 7, 2012, 02:08 AM	#37
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	No need to cite sources. The voting is done, even if the tallying goes on. What's done is done and we will move on from this point forward. I'm closing this before the politics gets someone banned.