Remington Rolling Block 1901 7mm

johnm1 · January 5, 2014, 11:14 PM

Although I have a nicer/larger handheld device, I am typing this on mynhandheld. So bear with me.

I picked up this Rolling Block a couple of months ago. Nice looking rifle and I expect to shoot well I plan to fire form new brass to take care of the case dimension issue with these older chambers. My question is about the handguard fit there is a slight mis-alignment between the hand guard and stock. I would expect this isn't normal but wanted to see if this was at least common. Have any of you seen this before or is this as I expect a mis matched replacement?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6032394...n/photostream/

Sorry for the terrible picture. It was taken with my handheld and I'm still working on the picture taking. The above is taken from the bottom of the rifle stock just in front of the receiver looking up to the bottom of the handguard with the rifle laying on its side.

Another poor photo of the entire rifle:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60323943@N07/11791306453/

Thanks

gyvel · January 6, 2014, 12:50 AM

That is typical of 1901/1902 Rolling Blocks. My 8mm 1902 has the exact same handguard and extends beyond the dimensions of the stock.

johnm1 · January 7, 2014, 12:38 AM

Thanks Gyvel.

gyvel · January 9, 2014, 03:43 PM

Glad to help!

Be extra cautious when working up a load. You seem to be well aware of the odd chamber dimensions of the 7mms.

At least my 8mm headspaces on the rim. LOL!!

johnm1 · January 9, 2014, 10:39 PM

I was disappointed when I read about the chamber dimension issue after I got it home. I would have still bought it. But I thought I was buying a rifle I didn't have to load special. I have a Steyr 1895 in 8x50R that I need to fire form as well.

But I love the rifle and can't wait to shoot it. Work keeps getting in the way.

chiefr · January 9, 2014, 11:48 PM

I have fired several of the 7mm rollers. I do not remember any 7x57 rollers having generous chambers. Can't say the same about some of the 7x57 bolt guns.

I enjoy rollers and they seem to draw attention at the range. Test fire yours and let us know how it goes if you are not set up with headspace tools.

johnm1 · January 10, 2014, 08:58 AM

I am typing this on my handheld so I don't have the links. But as I have read 7x57 changed early in the 20's and the head space dimension got longer. Might have that backwards. So the plan is to fire a blank to form the case to the chamber. Trim and neck size.

chiefr · January 10, 2014, 10:01 AM

John, I think the length they are referring to is the distance to the lands. Back in the days when smokeless appeared, everyone liked long and heavy RN bullets. IE, the 7x57 used a 175gr RN and even our Krags used 220gr RN. 303 Brit, 8x57, 8 Lebel the same

I obtain superior results in most transition, WW I, and Pre WW I milsurps when I use period style bullets.

johnm1 · January 10, 2014, 09:22 PM

I'm still on my hand held and my google foo isn't the best. But here is one post explaining the condition.

http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/Ya...num=1367594236

johnm1 · January 11, 2014, 06:33 PM

got back to a conventional computer. Here is an excerpt from another post that explains it much better than I could:

From: http://www.remingtonsociety.com/foru...php?f=4&t=2983

The 7mm Mauser cartridge dates from 1892. When SAMMI standardized the cartridge in the 20th century they settled on a case length that was slightly shorter than the original 7mm cartridge that rolling blocks are chambered for. This results in a modern 7mm Mauser cartridge having excessive head space (being too short) in the rolling block chamber. The distance from the base of the case to the start of the shoulder is shorter. It is difficult to fire form rimless cases as there is nothing holding the base of the case against the breech block. A successful way to fire form 7mm cases for the rolling block is to 1st expand the case mouth of an unprimed case with a .30 cal expander (I use a .30-06 die). LUBE the inside of the neck. Next, using a 7mm Mauser sizer die, screw it down until it only slightly sizes the neck. Try to chamber the case. In small increments, repeat above until the case will chamber, the breech block will close AND the hammer can be lowered to where it would strike the primer. It is best if there is very slight resistance of the face of the hammer against the breech block. You have now removed all excessive head space. Lock your 7mm die at this location and repeat the process for all cases you plan on shooting thru this rifle. Clean cases and reload using the starting load listed in modern reloading manuals. After firing it will be necessary to trim your cases to uniform case mouths.

There are other examples on the internet with the same explanation. I have a couple of rifles where it is best to fire form and neck size. This is the only one that is rimless. Another challenge.

chiefr · January 12, 2014, 12:53 AM

My experience differs. I have not had problem with headspace in a 7x57 roller. It would be interesting to see what your results would be after a test fire.
I mentioned earlier my experience with long throats in some 7x57 rifles
I know as a fact, the 7x57 was around in bolt guns several years before the rollers were chambered for the cart. At that time a new Mauser bolt cost around $50 per rifle. for $50, one could buy 3 rollers, hence their popularity in S & Central America when the countries were poor and developing.

January 5, 2014, 11:14 PM	#1
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	Remington Rolling Block 1901 7mm Although I have a nicer/larger handheld device, I am typing this on mynhandheld. So bear with me. I picked up this Rolling Block a couple of months ago. Nice looking rifle and I expect to shoot well I plan to fire form new brass to take care of the case dimension issue with these older chambers. My question is about the handguard fit there is a slight mis-alignment between the hand guard and stock. I would expect this isn't normal but wanted to see if this was at least common. Have any of you seen this before or is this as I expect a mis matched replacement? http://www.flickr.com/photos/6032394...n/photostream/ Sorry for the terrible picture. It was taken with my handheld and I'm still working on the picture taking. The above is taken from the bottom of the rifle stock just in front of the receiver looking up to the bottom of the handguard with the rifle laying on its side. Another poor photo of the entire rifle: http://www.flickr.com/photos/60323943@N07/11791306453/ Thanks __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ

January 7, 2014, 12:38 AM	#3
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	Thanks Gyvel. __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ

January 9, 2014, 10:39 PM	#5
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	I was disappointed when I read about the chamber dimension issue after I got it home. I would have still bought it. But I thought I was buying a rifle I didn't have to load special. I have a Steyr 1895 in 8x50R that I need to fire form as well. But I love the rifle and can't wait to shoot it. Work keeps getting in the way. __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ

January 10, 2014, 08:58 AM	#7
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	I am typing this on my handheld so I don't have the links. But as I have read 7x57 changed early in the 20's and the head space dimension got longer. Might have that backwards. So the plan is to fire a blank to form the case to the chamber. Trim and neck size. __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ

January 10, 2014, 09:22 PM	#9
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	I'm still on my hand held and my google foo isn't the best. But here is one post explaining the condition. http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/Ya...num=1367594236 __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ

January 6, 2014, 12:50 AM	#2
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	That is typical of 1901/1902 Rolling Blocks. My 8mm 1902 has the exact same handguard and extends beyond the dimensions of the stock.

January 9, 2014, 03:43 PM	#4
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Glad to help! Be extra cautious when working up a load. You seem to be well aware of the odd chamber dimensions of the 7mms. At least my 8mm headspaces on the rim. LOL!!

January 9, 2014, 11:48 PM	#6
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	I have fired several of the 7mm rollers. I do not remember any 7x57 rollers having generous chambers. Can't say the same about some of the 7x57 bolt guns. I enjoy rollers and they seem to draw attention at the range. Test fire yours and let us know how it goes if you are not set up with headspace tools.

January 10, 2014, 10:01 AM	#8
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	John, I think the length they are referring to is the distance to the lands. Back in the days when smokeless appeared, everyone liked long and heavy RN bullets. IE, the 7x57 used a 175gr RN and even our Krags used 220gr RN. 303 Brit, 8x57, 8 Lebel the same I obtain superior results in most transition, WW I, and Pre WW I milsurps when I use period style bullets.

January 11, 2014, 06:33 PM	#10
johnm1 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 652	got back to a conventional computer. Here is an excerpt from another post that explains it much better than I could: From: http://www.remingtonsociety.com/foru...php?f=4&t=2983 The 7mm Mauser cartridge dates from 1892. When SAMMI standardized the cartridge in the 20th century they settled on a case length that was slightly shorter than the original 7mm cartridge that rolling blocks are chambered for. This results in a modern 7mm Mauser cartridge having excessive head space (being too short) in the rolling block chamber. The distance from the base of the case to the start of the shoulder is shorter. It is difficult to fire form rimless cases as there is nothing holding the base of the case against the breech block. A successful way to fire form 7mm cases for the rolling block is to 1st expand the case mouth of an unprimed case with a .30 cal expander (I use a .30-06 die). LUBE the inside of the neck. Next, using a 7mm Mauser sizer die, screw it down until it only slightly sizes the neck. Try to chamber the case. In small increments, repeat above until the case will chamber, the breech block will close AND the hammer can be lowered to where it would strike the primer. It is best if there is very slight resistance of the face of the hammer against the breech block. You have now removed all excessive head space. Lock your 7mm die at this location and repeat the process for all cases you plan on shooting thru this rifle. Clean cases and reload using the starting load listed in modern reloading manuals. After firing it will be necessary to trim your cases to uniform case mouths. There are other examples on the internet with the same explanation. I have a couple of rifles where it is best to fire form and neck size. This is the only one that is rimless. Another challenge. __________________ John M. Mesa, AZ

January 12, 2014, 12:53 AM	#11
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	My experience differs. I have not had problem with headspace in a 7x57 roller. It would be interesting to see what your results would be after a test fire. I mentioned earlier my experience with long throats in some 7x57 rifles I know as a fact, the 7x57 was around in bolt guns several years before the rollers were chambered for the cart. At that time a new Mauser bolt cost around $50 per rifle. for $50, one could buy 3 rollers, hence their popularity in S & Central America when the countries were poor and developing.