One powder for both 223 and 30-30

[whitedogone]

I ussually buy Hodgon brand powders. Don't know why....just do. I want to start loading for the 223 again and my FIL gave me a winchester 94 he bought in 1951 that I want to load for as well. Is there one powder that will work well in both? I see some Varget loads for both as well as some h4895 and some h335.

[Rusty W]

Some more are BLC2, Win 748, IMR 3031, IMR 4198, IMR 4064. I like the BLC2 and IMR 3031 the best. They seem to be very flexable along with the H4895.

[Sevens]

I am not familiar with .30-30 at the load bench so I don't have any specific recommendations, but I do have two thoughts.

#1-- Hodgdon is, in my opinion, always a fine choice as a go to powder maker for any caliber. I say this because their powder is widely available and not overly expensive, but mostly-- because of their online reloading data center.

No, you can't replace real physical load manuals on your desk, but their online resource is the finest of any of the powder makers out there. New bullets and lots and lots of different load data. Hodgdon is the industry leader in this, by far.

#2-- When I first started loading (and even many years after) my first question when I considered a new caliber was always, "what can I build with what I already have here?" Eventually, I finally figured out that while it's easier than running down to a gun store, it's never going to give you the most bang for your buck unless you are lucky. For the $20 a pound of powder costs, it typically serves you best to do your research and find the powder that best fits your application rather than "settle" for whatever you happen to have.

Sure, I like to keep some powders that I can use for more than one thing, no doubt. I use a lot of Power Pistol in a lot of handgun calibers and it's great to be able to do that. It lets me buy my Power Pistol in 4-pound jugs and pay less for it because I use enough of it.

But when it comes to getting a particular caliber to do what you want? I think it'll serve you well to recognize that biting the bullet and buying a specific powder might be the best decision, rather than "settling" for whatever you happen to have on hand.

This doesn't directly apply to you with regards to .223 and .30-30, it's just something I want to share.

[Sarge]

H4895 has given me excellent accuracy and factory velocity in both.

[RidgwayCO]

Ramshot TAC is supposed to be excellent in the .223, and they have published .30-30 data for it on their website as well.

[Scorch]

IMR3031, WW748, RL7 in that order of preference.

[sourdough44]

H4895 with Hodgdon. TAC would be good too.

[whitedogone]

I think I might go with the H4895. They have data for the 30-06 and 338 win mag as well. I'd be real pleased if I could load all those with one bottle.

[DiscoRacing]

RamTac is excellent for .223...but I havent reloaded for 30/30 with it

[Unclenick]

Several of the powders mentioned have loads in both cartridges. Just understand that 4895, Varget, 748, BL-C(2) and others in that speed range will do their best with heavy bullets in the .223 and 30-30. If you don't have a fast enough twist in the .223 (9" or faster) to fire, say, the 77 grain Sierra MatchKings, then you will get less than the best accuracy, velocity uniformity, or ballistic efficiency from those powders.

Ballistic efficiency is the percent of chemical potential energy stored in the powder that gets converted to kinetic energy in the bullet. When this efficiency is low, you tend to get incomplete powder combustion (dirty bore) and you have to use heavier charges, so it costs you more per found to use an inefficient powder.

IMR 3031 is frequently the most efficient 30-30 powder and produces the most velocity for 150 to 170 grain bullets. It's not Hodgdon but IMR is owned and distributed by Hodgdon.

For .223 bullets from 55 grains and down, H4198 would be more efficient. It will require 10%-15% less powder than a number of the others mentioned, and that savings will go into your pocket. Reloader 10X is a little less efficient but can give you a bit more velocity.

H322 would be a compromise choice. OK with lighter .30-30 bullets and OK with .223 Rem bullets of around 55 grains and up. It's a best performance in neither with most bullets.

[NWPilgrim]

The .30-30 generally likes faster powders than the 55 gr and up .223 loads. FYI, the greater diameter the case mouth is in relation to the case body, the faster the powder should be. The relative case length is also a factor.

Assuming you load 170 gr in .30-30 and 55 gr in .223 then H335 and H4895 would be good compromises. H4198 and H322 would be better for the .30-30 and Varget and BLC-2 would be better for the .223.

[Jim243]

It's strange, I was going to say H4895, but then went over what I use and the answer is there is no one rifle powder that is good for everything.

H 335 - .223 Remington - under 55 grain bullet
H 4895 - .223 Remington - 55 grain bullet and higher
IMR 4198 - 7.62x39 Russian - 123 grain
H 4895 - 243 Winchester - 105 grain bullet
H 4350 - 270 Winchester - 130 grain bullet
IMR 3031 - 35 Remington - 180-220 grain bullet
H 4895 - 30-06 Springfield - 150-180 grain bullet

The answer is go out and buy two pounds of powder one for your 223 and one for you 30-30.

Jim

[Mike Irwin]

IMR 3031 would be my personal first choice.

[whitedogone]

The answer is go out and buy two pounds of powder one for your 223 and one for you 30-30.

Maybe so....but which ones?

My 223 only sees lighter stuff 50-55 grain V-max. I haven't loaded for the 94 yet. I do like the fact (maybe it's a fact) of the extreme powders. I shoot in the hot and some REAL cold temps.

[Blue Grass]

Accurate lists several powders for .223 and .30-30 such as AA-2230,-2460,-2495,&-2520.

[madd0c]

Not sure about the 30-30, but I standardized powders for my .308s and .223/556 with IMR-4064 or Rel-15 (Whichever I can find)

They both are great powders in the .308 and acceptable in the .223

madd0c

[Unclenick]

Whitedoggone,

Depends, too, on what gun you are shooting the ammo in? Stoner designed the AR around IMR 4198. That would be with bullets in your wieght range. I find the 53 grain flat base Sierra MatchKing and IMR 4198 a hard to beat combination for accuracy in the .223. IMR 4198 will also produce the original design gas port pressures in the AR, so it is a go-to powder for me in that gun for short range loads. You'll find with the 50 grain bullet, too, that by the time you take to the cartridge to its maximum SAAMI pressure, you get 200 fps more MV out of IMR 4198 than you can get with IMR 4895, because you can't fit enough of the latter in under the bullet to get to full pressure with that light bullet.

If you're using .223 in a bolt gun, you'll find Reloader 10X, which is very slightly slower than IMR 4198, will equal or better its velocity, and do it with about 5% lower peak pressure. It's also a good choice. It was designed specifically for use with light bullets.

For the .30-30, as Mike suggested, get IMR 3031. It pretty much tops the performance list with the 150 and 170 grain flat base, flat nose, lever gun bullets. BL-C(2) isn't far behind if you want to avoid compressed loads altogether or prefer the easier metering of ball powder. Just be aware, as with all ball powder it is sensitive to start pressure, and it is possible you'll need to go to using magnum primers with it for equal consistency.

What NWPilgrim said about wide bullets and faster powder is partly correct, but is only certain to be true with same-parent-case rounds fired to the same peak pressure. What actually determines the powder speed needed for maximum velocity is how quickly the percent volume the powder is burning in expands as the bullet moves down the tube, and what peak pressure has to be reached? In effect, the powder has to burn at a rate that makes gas fast enough to surpass the volume growth behind the moving bullet, and surpass it by enough to reach the desired peak pressure value.

A bullet that is wide, relative to the case diameter, doesn't have to go as far down the tube to increase the volume the powder is burning in by a given percentage, as would a narrower bullet fired from a necked-down version of the same case. Plus, it also has more cross-sectional area than a smaller diameter bullet, so it takes fewer pounds per square inch of pressure to apply a given number of pounds force to the bullet base to accelerate it. As a result, if you compare two different diameter bullets of the same weight fired from cases identical except for neck diameter, the one with the wider bullet will need a faster powder to reach the same peak pressure. The wider bullet one will grow the volume behind it faster, so a faster powder is needed to keep up.

In comparing the .223 to the .30-30, .308 diameter bullets have almost 1.9 times more area. On the other hand, they have three times the weight. The .30-30 bullets, will grow volume 1.9 times more per inch, but because the .30-30's case volume behind the bullet is 1.5 times bigger than the .223's, as a percent of case volume the .30-30's growth is only 1.25 times greater per inch of bullet travel. When you consider the 50 grain .223 goes about 1.5 times faster than the 30-30 and that the peak pressure it has to achieve is 1.3 times higher, the .223's need for powder speed with a 50 grain bullet actually works out to exceed that of the .30-30 with a 150 grain bullet. Hence the recommendation for 4198 speed in the .223 and 3031 speed in the .30-30.

Reloader 10X is excellent in the .223. In the .30-30 behind the little 100 grain semi-jacketed round nose plinkers it can give you some speed, and it does OK with 110 grain bullets, too. By the time you get to 125 grains .30-30 bullets and up, it gets beat by by 3031 and BL-C(2).

[James R. Burke]

Just myself I try to find the best powder for what I am loading for. Most the time it does take two for two differnt ones, but not all the time there are some out there that will work in several good.

[howlnmad]

I use the H335 for both of those rounds. Have had great results espeacially with the 30-30 pushing 150 gr Rem core-lokt bullets. I use that for hunting mostly (maybe a little plinking), the .223 is just used for punching holes in paper.

[ForneyRider]

I've used Varget, R15, and AA2230 in both .223 and 30-30.

Varget and R15 did not do well for me with bullet smaller than 55gr. But some like them down to 40gr. I couldn't stuff 28gr of either powder in a .223 case.

AA2230 is ball powder and does great in .223 with bullets 36gr to 75gr, but poops out a bit with the heavier bullets. AA doesn't have loads for 30-30 with AA2230, but I have some awesome loads with it and 125 Sierra JHP and 30-30.

I use Benchmark and R10x with .223(smaller bullets) but the numbers didn't look that great for .30-30.

I used IMR 4064 for the 160gr FTX bullets but 4064 is a bit chunky for stuffing in .223 with the lighter bullets. It does well with 69grSMK.

W748 looks good for both calibers and common bullets.