NYC Permit Holders Prohibited from shooting at non NYC Ranges?

Bubsy · February 15, 2015, 09:37 PM

Since getting my NYC Residence Permit 9 years ago, I have gone to a pistol range on Long Island (Nassau County) almost weekly to practice shooting with one of my 6 handguns. Today, when I arrived at the range, I was told by the range instructor that NYC Pistol Permit Holders are now prohibited from practicing at any range other than those within NYC itself. I was told that this applies to NYPD officers as well. I haven't seen anything about this law change in the media. Does anyone know anything about this? For years I have been shooting at a private range in Levittown as well as the public range in Mitchell Field near Roosevelt Field and have never had any issues until now.

Thanks,

bubsy

Bubsy · February 15, 2015, 09:45 PM

I found a link to the ruling in another forum. This is a serious concern.

http://www.longislandfirearms.com/fo...utside-of-nyc/

Bubsy · February 15, 2015, 10:13 PM

Just re read the NYC Pistol Permit Manual. The Rules of the City of New York state that with a premises license you can transport your handgun to and from an authorized range. But nowhere do they define what an "authorized range" is.

Musketeer · February 17, 2015, 07:14 PM

"The fact that few, or even no, such ranges exist is not tantamount to a ban; the number of firing ranges open to the public is a function of the market, and not the challenged rule," he wrote.
He called the restrictions on the transport of permitted handguns to only city-approved ranges a "regulatory measure" that does not strike at the heart of a Second Amendment right.

Wow. NYC can obliterate at will any range within its jurisdiction. It creates draconian rules for permit holders while demanding they use only 7 ranges within city limits. The judge then goes so far as to say their could be no ranges and it wouldn't be an issue because it is determined by the market, even though NYC restrictions make it nearly impossible for any new ranges to open and does everything possible to drive out those that remain. It isn't a ban though...

NY and NYC's only hope is federal intervention to enforce the 2A.

Armybrat · February 17, 2015, 07:23 PM

Good luck with getting the DOJ to help the NYC gun owners.

62coltnavy · February 19, 2015, 12:28 AM

An entirely bizarre opinion. What this judge is saying is that if you own a rifle or shotgun, you can't take it anywhere to go hunting? Or is this law specific to handguns? Are NYC permits invalid outside of city limits? If not, then the regulation directly conflicts with the federal FOPA concerning legal transportation of weapons. Is the law there that you do not get a state-wide possession permit, but only a county by county permit? How does such a rule not burden the right to "bear" arms outside the home? [Sorry, I forgot--the right to keep and bear arms only applies to the home....Uh huh.]

heyjoe · February 19, 2015, 04:31 PM

Bubsy Mitchel Field is accepting all NY permits. Levittown is not accepting NYC residence only permits. the ruling doesnt apply to police or those holding unrestricted permits.

**44 AMP** · February 20, 2015, 11:10 AM

I have no idea of the actual details, but from my far removed distance, I can tell you what it looks like.

It looks like legal NYC pistol owners are once again pawns in a bureaucratic pee-ing contest. It looks like someone in Nassau is ticked at NYC and is not honoring NYC permits as a means of expressing their ire. With the law abiding gun owner caught in the middle, again.

I grew up in NY state, during the 70s, moved away in 79. So my knowledge of NY law stopped being up to date about then, so you will have to check carefully to see what is, and is not current NY law.

When I lived there, and had a NY state pistol permit, it stated right on the permit that it was not valid in NYC. Everywhere else in the state, it was valid, but not in NYC. ONLY permits issued in NYC were valid in NYC. NYC permits were considered valid throughout the state, but NOT vice versa.

You'll have to check the current laws carefully. There may have been a change that allowed your situation to happen. OR, perhaps, there might not have been. I am guessing here, you need to check ALL applicable laws (and it might NOT be a gun law being used for the justification here), I can see a legal situation where the rest of NYS might not be required by law to honor NYC permits (maybe for any/everything), not just pistols.

The fact that the state always has honored NYC permits, might just be a courtesy, not a legal mandate. It might constitute the needed precedent if this becomes a court matter, but NYS (and it could be legally a county by county decision) might not be legally bound to honor NYC permits.

It might be that the fact that the State (through all its govts) has, since the implementation of the state permit system, generations ago, always honored NYC permits might just have been a policy, and not a legal requirement.

IF this is the case, and the Nassau Co. officials ARE on legal ground, then they do have the right to refuse you. Contact your local guns rights groups, NYC and NYS! see if they are aware this is going on, and if so, what their stance is, and go from there.

With the limited information I have, these are the possibilities I see, in no particular order,

1) The refusal to accept your permit may be the actions of a "rogue" official, acting on their own, and against the law/policy precedents.

2) The refusal is sanctioned, official Nassau county policy.
It has to be one or the other. Which one determines the next effective step to be taken.

IF it is official, legal policy, it may be deliberately directed at gun owners (and in NY, that's always possible), or it may be feuding bureaucrats using gun owners as pawns or catspaws in some other disagreement, simply because they have the power to do so.

You need to find out (and make others aware) to determine what you/we can do about it. Until then, your only option is to obey the law, all of it, while working to get things fixed.

heyjoe · February 20, 2015, 01:55 PM

this is as a result of a challenge to new york city laws pertaining to premesis residence only pistol permits not being allowed to be taken out of the city under 38 Rules of the City of New York §5-23. its none of the above things you listed. nassau county ranges are reacting to the federal court decision which upheld those laws. it is interesting that the public nassau county range is continuing to honor all new york city permits while the private ranges are not.

the law does not apply to unrestricted permits.

**44 AMP** · February 20, 2015, 07:52 PM

clearly you are closer to the situation than I am. Thank you for the clairifying information.

TDL · February 25, 2015, 10:53 PM

Quote:

With the limited information I have, these are the possibilities I see, in no particular order,

1) The refusal to accept your permit may be the actions of a "rogue" official, acting on their own, and against the law/policy precedents.

2) The refusal is sanctioned, official Nassau county policy.
It has to be one or the other. Which one determines the next effective step to be taken.

3) NY officials simply happy to introduce a "chilling effect." Not actually illegal, but ambiguous enough to harm gun owners

alan · March 17, 2015, 06:11 PM

Re this latest foolishness, I grew up in NYC specifically in Brooklyn. I left NYC in 1967, and have not, to this day, regretted it.

TMD · March 17, 2015, 07:19 PM

I left Long Island in1981. Never looked back.

February 15, 2015, 09:37 PM	#1
Bubsy Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2006 Posts: 191	NYC Permit Holders Prohibited from shooting at non NYC Ranges? Since getting my NYC Residence Permit 9 years ago, I have gone to a pistol range on Long Island (Nassau County) almost weekly to practice shooting with one of my 6 handguns. Today, when I arrived at the range, I was told by the range instructor that NYC Pistol Permit Holders are now prohibited from practicing at any range other than those within NYC itself. I was told that this applies to NYPD officers as well. I haven't seen anything about this law change in the media. Does anyone know anything about this? For years I have been shooting at a private range in Levittown as well as the public range in Mitchell Field near Roosevelt Field and have never had any issues until now. Thanks, bubsy

February 15, 2015, 09:45 PM	#2
Bubsy Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2006 Posts: 191	new pistol permit ruling in NYC I found a link to the ruling in another forum. This is a serious concern. http://www.longislandfirearms.com/fo...utside-of-nyc/

February 17, 2015, 07:14 PM	#4
Musketeer Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2005 Posts: 3,733	"The fact that few, or even no, such ranges exist is not tantamount to a ban; the number of firing ranges open to the public is a function of the market, and not the challenged rule," he wrote. He called the restrictions on the transport of permitted handguns to only city-approved ranges a "regulatory measure" that does not strike at the heart of a Second Amendment right. Wow. NYC can obliterate at will any range within its jurisdiction. It creates draconian rules for permit holders while demanding they use only 7 ranges within city limits. The judge then goes so far as to say their could be no ranges and it wouldn't be an issue because it is determined by the market, even though NYC restrictions make it nearly impossible for any new ranges to open and does everything possible to drive out those that remain. It isn't a ban though... NY and NYC's only hope is federal intervention to enforce the 2A. __________________ "Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." Thomas Jefferson "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin

February 20, 2015, 11:10 AM	#8
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,818	I have no idea of the actual details, but from my far removed distance, I can tell you what it looks like. It looks like legal NYC pistol owners are once again pawns in a bureaucratic pee-ing contest. It looks like someone in Nassau is ticked at NYC and is not honoring NYC permits as a means of expressing their ire. With the law abiding gun owner caught in the middle, again. I grew up in NY state, during the 70s, moved away in 79. So my knowledge of NY law stopped being up to date about then, so you will have to check carefully to see what is, and is not current NY law. When I lived there, and had a NY state pistol permit, it stated right on the permit that it was not valid in NYC. Everywhere else in the state, it was valid, but not in NYC. ONLY permits issued in NYC were valid in NYC. NYC permits were considered valid throughout the state, but NOT vice versa. You'll have to check the current laws carefully. There may have been a change that allowed your situation to happen. OR, perhaps, there might not have been. I am guessing here, you need to check ALL applicable laws (and it might NOT be a gun law being used for the justification here), I can see a legal situation where the rest of NYS might not be required by law to honor NYC permits (maybe for any/everything), not just pistols. The fact that the state always has honored NYC permits, might just be a courtesy, not a legal mandate. It might constitute the needed precedent if this becomes a court matter, but NYS (and it could be legally a county by county decision) might not be legally bound to honor NYC permits. It might be that the fact that the State (through all its govts) has, since the implementation of the state permit system, generations ago, always honored NYC permits might just have been a policy, and not a legal requirement. IF this is the case, and the Nassau Co. officials ARE on legal ground, then they do have the right to refuse you. Contact your local guns rights groups, NYC and NYS! see if they are aware this is going on, and if so, what their stance is, and go from there. With the limited information I have, these are the possibilities I see, in no particular order, 1) The refusal to accept your permit may be the actions of a "rogue" official, acting on their own, and against the law/policy precedents. 2) The refusal is sanctioned, official Nassau county policy. It has to be one or the other. Which one determines the next effective step to be taken. IF it is official, legal policy, it may be deliberately directed at gun owners (and in NY, that's always possible), or it may be feuding bureaucrats using gun owners as pawns or catspaws in some other disagreement, simply because they have the power to do so. You need to find out (and make others aware) to determine what you/we can do about it. Until then, your only option is to obey the law, all of it, while working to get things fixed. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 20, 2015, 07:52 PM	#10
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,818	clearly you are closer to the situation than I am. Thank you for the clairifying information. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 15, 2015, 10:13 PM	#3
Bubsy Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2006 Posts: 191	Just re read the NYC Pistol Permit Manual. The Rules of the City of New York state that with a premises license you can transport your handgun to and from an authorized range. But nowhere do they define what an "authorized range" is.

February 17, 2015, 07:23 PM	#5
Armybrat Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2009 Location: Round Rock, Texas Posts: 976	Good luck with getting the DOJ to help the NYC gun owners.

February 19, 2015, 12:28 AM	#6
62coltnavy Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2011 Posts: 356	An entirely bizarre opinion. What this judge is saying is that if you own a rifle or shotgun, you can't take it anywhere to go hunting? Or is this law specific to handguns? Are NYC permits invalid outside of city limits? If not, then the regulation directly conflicts with the federal FOPA concerning legal transportation of weapons. Is the law there that you do not get a state-wide possession permit, but only a county by county permit? How does such a rule not burden the right to "bear" arms outside the home? [Sorry, I forgot--the right to keep and bear arms only applies to the home....Uh huh.]

February 19, 2015, 04:31 PM	#7
heyjoe Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Posts: 438	Bubsy Mitchel Field is accepting all NY permits. Levittown is not accepting NYC residence only permits. the ruling doesnt apply to police or those holding unrestricted permits.

February 20, 2015, 01:55 PM	#9
heyjoe Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Posts: 438	this is as a result of a challenge to new york city laws pertaining to premesis residence only pistol permits not being allowed to be taken out of the city under 38 Rules of the City of New York §5-23. its none of the above things you listed. nassau county ranges are reacting to the federal court decision which upheld those laws. it is interesting that the public nassau county range is continuing to honor all new york city permits while the private ranges are not. the law does not apply to unrestricted permits.

March 17, 2015, 06:11 PM	#12
alan Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Posts: 3,847	Re this latest foolishness, I grew up in NYC specifically in Brooklyn. I left NYC in 1967, and have not, to this day, regretted it.

March 17, 2015, 07:19 PM	#13
TMD Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,293	I left Long Island in1981. Never looked back.