M/N 91/30 dragoon questions

CLC · April 30, 2015, 04:56 PM

Im not a complete noob to mosin nagants but how do you tell if a rifle is a ex dragoon? Are m/n's made before 1929 considered dragoons? I was at a antique store and found a Izhevsk dated 1928 with a 3 digit serial number just north of $380. I know prices have gone up but $380 seems high And I'm wondering if it's even worth offering $300 for. He also has a chopped up Tula dated 1922 and with the old ladder type rear sight. That one was priced north of $200 and had stupid sniper bent bolt on it. The front sight also seemed to be similar to the ones found on the sporter Sears Spanish Mausers.

kilimanjaro · May 2, 2015, 01:12 AM

300 bucks should get a pretty nice pre-1933 Mosin, I've never paid more than that. I know some cost more, but I don't buy them. I think the vendor is thinking that serial number is meaningful.

BoogieMan · May 2, 2015, 05:35 AM

I have seen mosin listed for that and more. I think that many people put a high price on them in hopes that someone doesn't know what they are looking at and buys.
as the saying goes "fools and their money are easily seperated". The only way I would drop that on a Mosin would be if it was a complete sniper rig, a hungarian 91 or some other "special". Otherwise you can get a k3, enfield,or mauser for $380.

Tidewater_Kid · May 2, 2015, 09:41 AM

I agree with others, too much money. I got a 1925 Ex-Dragoon for $129 only a few years ago.

Check this site for features of each model:

http://7.62x54r.net/

TK

l.cutler · May 2, 2015, 03:08 PM

If it was a Dragoon in original configuration I think I would go for it, an ex dragoon is just a 91/30 though.

CLC · May 3, 2015, 09:22 AM

I know price is subjective but the izhevsk looks like a $280 rifle If M/N are at the $200 point. The tula has me interested with the rear ladder type sight and i believe it has the proper front blade sight. I remember it missing some of its stock and the bolt has be shortened and bent, otherwise I would pick that one up. I was thinking about making the guy a offer but I might have to past them up.

tobnpr · May 3, 2015, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Are m/n's made before 1929 considered dragoons?

Well, if it's not the M91 (or the rare 1907 carbine), then by default it would be a Dragoon- although there were very few 91/30's produced as early as 1927.

I'm with the others...an "ex-dragoon", certainly isn't a surviving dragoon- and while it would be worth more than a 91/30, obviously not as much as the real deal.

Of course- there are many other factors that should go into valuation far as I'm concerned, that for some reason seem to go out the window with some MN "collectors" today- not the least of which is CONDITION.

I think the market is overpriced- and will self-correct in time for the more common rifles. All one needs do is look at the thousands (literally) of 91/30's on the various auction sites and online classifieds to see that a lot of speculators jumped in hoping to flip for a quick buck- and they're not selling.

When beautiful Finnish Mosins don't sell for $300- and M44's are selling (well- asking) for nearly as much, something is askew.

Me, I'm buying Finn's...

CLC · May 3, 2015, 06:45 PM

Thanks tobnpr, thats exactly what I'm thinkIng. I already have a ex dragoon in that case so I really don't need another for a inflated price. what I'm wondering now is how you tell the difference between the ex dragoon and cossack rifles? The tula was marked 1922 which seemed kind of early.

Tidewater_Kid · May 4, 2015, 08:38 PM

Here's the differences:

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM91D.htm

TK

CLC · May 5, 2015, 12:19 PM

Interesting. I am still a little confused on the rear sight identification though. Digging through my own collection I have a tula 1928 and the wood on the top barrel is cut a tad shorter than my others, I also have a 1930 izhevsk and 1929 tula so that would make them ex dragoons as well?

Tidewater_Kid · May 5, 2015, 08:11 PM

What we purchase are generally refurbished rifles and most come out of Russia. They don't always follow patterns and just want to make them serviceable. If I read correctly, many of the current version are remanufactured rifles with new parts used where needed. Russian never throw anything away. I think the site I posted shows what they should look like, but it won't cover every version out there.

TK

tobnpr · May 6, 2015, 09:02 AM

The site linked above, 54R.net, is the one of the best MN sites- as is mosinnagant.net.

The founder of that site operates the MN Collectors forum on Gunboards where you'll find the best experts available for this rifle.

As Tidewater said (refurbs aside), there are many exceptions to the "rules" as far as stock and rifle features in general (like sling slots, recoil crossbolts, etc.) that deviate from what's "expected" for a given date of manufacture and model.
Whether they were prototypes, field changes, or Ivan just decided to do something different- is impossible to know.

kilimanjaro · May 6, 2015, 02:40 PM

Just remember that a centrally-planned economy fueled on Vodka, forced labor, Commissars, and production quotas is going to have problems in the parts pipeline. Expect variations in materials, tolerances, and fit and finish.

April 30, 2015, 04:56 PM	#1
CLC Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2011 Posts: 603	M/N 91/30 dragoon questions Im not a complete noob to mosin nagants but how do you tell if a rifle is a ex dragoon? Are m/n's made before 1929 considered dragoons? I was at a antique store and found a Izhevsk dated 1928 with a 3 digit serial number just north of $380. I know prices have gone up but $380 seems high And I'm wondering if it's even worth offering $300 for. He also has a chopped up Tula dated 1922 and with the old ladder type rear sight. That one was priced north of $200 and had stupid sniper bent bolt on it. The front sight also seemed to be similar to the ones found on the sporter Sears Spanish Mausers. __________________ In god we trust, all others must pay cash.

May 2, 2015, 05:35 AM	#3
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	I have seen mosin listed for that and more. I think that many people put a high price on them in hopes that someone doesn't know what they are looking at and buys. as the saying goes "fools and their money are easily seperated". The only way I would drop that on a Mosin would be if it was a complete sniper rig, a hungarian 91 or some other "special". Otherwise you can get a k3, enfield,or mauser for $380. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

May 3, 2015, 09:22 AM	#6
CLC Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2011 Posts: 603	I know price is subjective but the izhevsk looks like a $280 rifle If M/N are at the $200 point. The tula has me interested with the rear ladder type sight and i believe it has the proper front blade sight. I remember it missing some of its stock and the bolt has be shortened and bent, otherwise I would pick that one up. I was thinking about making the guy a offer but I might have to past them up. __________________ In god we trust, all others must pay cash.

May 3, 2015, 06:45 PM	#8
CLC Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2011 Posts: 603	Thanks tobnpr, thats exactly what I'm thinkIng. I already have a ex dragoon in that case so I really don't need another for a inflated price. what I'm wondering now is how you tell the difference between the ex dragoon and cossack rifles? The tula was marked 1922 which seemed kind of early. __________________ In god we trust, all others must pay cash.

May 5, 2015, 12:19 PM	#10
CLC Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2011 Posts: 603	Interesting. I am still a little confused on the rear sight identification though. Digging through my own collection I have a tula 1928 and the wood on the top barrel is cut a tad shorter than my others, I also have a 1930 izhevsk and 1929 tula so that would make them ex dragoons as well? __________________ In god we trust, all others must pay cash. Last edited by CLC; May 5, 2015 at 12:30 PM.

May 2, 2015, 01:12 AM	#2
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	300 bucks should get a pretty nice pre-1933 Mosin, I've never paid more than that. I know some cost more, but I don't buy them. I think the vendor is thinking that serial number is meaningful.

May 2, 2015, 09:41 AM	#4
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	I agree with others, too much money. I got a 1925 Ex-Dragoon for $129 only a few years ago. Check this site for features of each model: http://7.62x54r.net/ TK

May 2, 2015, 03:08 PM	#5
l.cutler Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Posts: 275	If it was a Dragoon in original configuration I think I would go for it, an ex dragoon is just a 91/30 though.

May 4, 2015, 08:38 PM	#9
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	Here's the differences: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM91D.htm TK

May 5, 2015, 08:11 PM	#11
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	What we purchase are generally refurbished rifles and most come out of Russia. They don't always follow patterns and just want to make them serviceable. If I read correctly, many of the current version are remanufactured rifles with new parts used where needed. Russian never throw anything away. I think the site I posted shows what they should look like, but it won't cover every version out there. TK

May 6, 2015, 09:02 AM	#12
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	The site linked above, 54R.net, is the one of the best MN sites- as is mosinnagant.net. The founder of that site operates the MN Collectors forum on Gunboards where you'll find the best experts available for this rifle. As Tidewater said (refurbs aside), there are many exceptions to the "rules" as far as stock and rifle features in general (like sling slots, recoil crossbolts, etc.) that deviate from what's "expected" for a given date of manufacture and model. Whether they were prototypes, field changes, or Ivan just decided to do something different- is impossible to know. __________________ Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting 07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts Genuine Cerakote Applicator www.biggorillagunworks.com

May 6, 2015, 02:40 PM	#13
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Just remember that a centrally-planned economy fueled on Vodka, forced labor, Commissars, and production quotas is going to have problems in the parts pipeline. Expect variations in materials, tolerances, and fit and finish.