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Old December 10, 2018, 03:20 PM   #26
gwpercle
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One simple reason.....They Sell !

A buddy who owned a gun shop for many years told me he can sell every 1911 he can get his hands on , regardless of maker ! They all will be purchased .

He sold me a Star Model PS in 45 acp which was the best 1911 type pistol I ever owned ! Not having that pesky grip safety was sweet .
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Old December 10, 2018, 03:28 PM   #27
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Who makes a version of the 1911?

Well, really, who does not????

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Old December 10, 2018, 03:35 PM   #28
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many reasons, preference, price, needs, competiton, etc....
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Old December 10, 2018, 03:44 PM   #29
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I don't consider Colts to be at all overpriced. With some models priced at under $1,000 that nonetheless give you forged frames and forged slides, and fewer MIM small parts than any other 1911 aside from the much more expensive custom and semi-custom makers, I consider Colts to be bargains. Sure, you can find new 1911s that sell for less, and many of them shoot okay. But ... most of them have cast frames, many of them have cast slides, and they all make generous use of MIM small parts.

Yes, I am familiar with the arguments for and against MIM parts, and I own guns that have MIM parts in them. They work, But I have also had MIM parts fail in rather strage ways. I've never seen or heard of a Colt thumb safety have the shaft snap off; it has happened to me with a MIM safety.
Thank you Aguila Blanca for your rather well thought out answer for why are Colts so expensive.

My goodness...just because you can’t make a decent 1911 for under $650 is no reason to make a crappy one for that under $650!

Colt makes the best under $1000 1911. I wish Springfield were good enough. They are almost good enough, but not quite. RIA has a noteworthy 1911 for under $1000, but not good enough.

For those of you complaining about price....yes, $600 Glocks, $400 XD’s, and $400 M&P’s work.
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Old December 10, 2018, 05:36 PM   #30
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While the original questions have been answered, new questions have begun to take over.... Which could lead to a closure of this thread... I also have another thought brought on by the previous digressions, but perhaps should just start another thread.
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Old December 10, 2018, 05:50 PM   #31
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Why so many 1911 copy cats?

Yeah, I do believe asked and answered.

Pathfinder45:
Quote:
While the original questions have been answered, new questions have begun to take over.... Which could lead to a closure of this thread... I also have another thought brought on by the previous digressions, but perhaps should just start another thread.
That's how I would go about it, just start another thread.

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Old December 10, 2018, 10:46 PM   #32
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The same can be said of the small frame Glocks. Lots of clones these days, too.

Like the 1911, the design works and aftermarket parts are plentiful. People can customize it to their heart's content.
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Old December 10, 2018, 11:08 PM   #33
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They sell.

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Old December 11, 2018, 09:29 AM   #34
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Simply: Colt just couldn't ever get it quite right.
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Old December 11, 2018, 09:56 AM   #35
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The design is over 100 years old and still beats out newer designs.

Same reason lots of different folks sell cars with 4 wheels, bicycles with 2, washing machines, eye glasses, toilets. Old ideas that are worthwhile and no longer subject to a patent are often copied.
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Old December 11, 2018, 10:14 PM   #36
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That's the part of the "1911" market that amazes me; twenty makers all doing essentially the same thing, taking a share of the same pie rather than doing something different and dominating.
Customers weren't greatly impressed with the Series 70 collet bushing or the Series 80 Swartz safety, and rejected the Double Eagle outright.

The market's idea of "1911" isn't all that flexible, apparently. There are plenty of not-1911 guns out there if you don't want a 1911.
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Old December 11, 2018, 10:40 PM   #37
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twenty makers all doing essentially the same thing, taking a share of the same pie rather than doing something different and dominating.
Let's be realistic, who out there is dominating at anything? Even non-1911s are Browning tilting barrel designs.
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Old December 11, 2018, 11:14 PM   #38
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Customers weren't greatly impressed with the Series 70 collet bushing or the Series 80 Swartz safety, and rejected the Double Eagle outright.
In my Colt Series 70 guns I have yet to break a collet bushing. While I have seen plenty of broken ones. What I have done is on several I shoot regularly I replaced the collet bushings with fitted bushings. I saved the collet bushings by gun so if I ever sell them they sell with the original collet bushings. A new bushing runs about $25 for a good one like an Ed Brown.

The Double Eagle guns just never took off, I never owned one. The so called New Colt Series 70 guns lack the collet bushing, go figure huh?

I have also seen some really sharp 1911 smiths take a fine stone and some polishing compound and convert some of the RIA guns and even those Chinese NORINCO into remarkably good shooters just cleaning up the parts, especially the trigger parts. While they say you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear I have seen some damn fine guns produced from those less expensive versions with some time, patience and applied skill.

On the Colt Series 80 guns from about 1983 on Colt used a firing pin block and in the design of Colt it was the trigger mechanism which removed the block, some complained this increased trigger pull but again, any real good competent 1911 smith can get the trigger pull just fine including dropping the block. Some manufacturers used the grip safety rather than the trigger to drop the block. When it’s the grip safety it is often called a Swartz Safety. Smith & Wesson as well as Kimber both use this Swartz Safety while Para Ordnance uses the Colt series 80 system with the trigger releasing the firing pin block. Colt did use a Swartz Safety in the 80’s but quickly changed away from it making it difficult to find Colts equipped with the Swartz Safety as few were made.

Ron
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Old December 12, 2018, 12:22 AM   #39
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Slight correction. The Swartz firing pin safety was a Colt innovation, but it dated to before WW2. It was dropped during the war, and Colt never brought it back. It's the current "Series 80" firing pin system that Colt introduced in the 1980s -- hence the name.
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Old December 12, 2018, 07:47 AM   #40
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Thanks as I was wondering about that.

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Old December 13, 2018, 09:57 PM   #41
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Why so many copies?

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. :-)
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Old December 13, 2018, 10:33 PM   #42
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The design works and people like it. There's a 1911 for every pocketbook. If you want a high end custom you can have it. If you want a low end GI model you can have it. If you want a low end custom that will run just as good if not better than the big boys you can have that too, they're just not as pretty.
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Old December 15, 2018, 07:23 PM   #43
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The simple answer is... Technology.

Namely, CNC/MIM.

Bought a NIB American-made all-steel Springfield "MIL-SPEC," with the stainless match-grade Bbl and bushing, lowered/flared port, and walnut grips...

$500.

Tight as a Mermaid's Petunia, 100% reliable, and shoots under a coin.

What used to take a craftsman weeks to produce? CNC/MIM can now manufacture, and Chimpanzees assemble, in hours.




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Old December 16, 2018, 10:18 PM   #44
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C'mon, guys. I can't be the only one here who's been a gun enthusiast for more than 14 years.

Why is the 1911 still so popular? Actually, I remember it fading... Until the 1994 assault weapons ban. We spent a whole decade when nobody could buy a new magazine/gun that held over 10 rounds. And a lot of folks figured if they were limited to 10 rounds anyway, they'd rather those rounds to be .45 instead of 9mm. That's when I remember the big resurgence in the 1911's popularity.
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Old December 17, 2018, 01:23 PM   #45
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I am a 1911 guy. I have 7 of 'em. By reading this forum and several others, one would tend to draw the conclusion that they are among the most popular of all handguns. Everyone and their brother makes at least one. I'm sure that they're a big seller. So, where are they?

I shoot weekly at a really nice indoor range. Tuesday is senior and military day. Half price for vets and old guys. I don't miss many Tuesdays.

When I go to the range, I will often take a 1911. I love shooting them, and I love the way that they feel in the hand. But, I RARELY see another one. Once in a blue moon, I'll see a fellow old timer with a 1911. But, in the past 3 years, I could probably count all of those times on one hand and have a couple of fingers left over. Most of the time, they're shooting .22's, .380's or .38 revolvers. Now and then, I'll see someone with a GP100 or a Smith .357.

The younger guys all seem to have Glocks, Sigs, M&P's or some other flavor of striker fired gun. 9mm's rule the roost. I'd think that if 1911's were so plentiful, I'd see a lot more of them on the range, especially from the older guys. I sure do like to shoot mine, so this question has always perplexed me a bit.
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Old December 17, 2018, 02:20 PM   #46
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Larry,

I completely understand about the lack of 1911s on the range. I contribute to that as well.

the 1911 and BHP are my two most favorite centerfire auto platforms.

I have a few versions of each.

Yet, I have enough other stuff that I rotate through them, and get either a 1911 or BHP out to shoot about once out of every 5 or 10 trips.


I think the younger people are more influenced by the pop culture references of the past 30 years, where Glocks, Sigs, S&W M&P, etc rule- and by magazine capacity concerns.

They have been taught the values of shot volume instead of having the values of shot placement extolled.

The 1911 comes from an era of 5 round magazines in rifles, with shot placement out to 500 yards still a consideration.

We are now in an era where suppressive fire doctrines are more common in the military, where rifles have 20-30 rounds, and volume of lead downrange negates the '1 shot, 1 kill' philosophy of a hunter-influenced society.

I will say that a Glock tends to work better out of the box than many similarly priced new 1911s.

1911s take more time to disassemble, and have more 'loose parts', than a Glock.


Yet, the 1911 just feels great in my hand.

So, I have some and shoot them- but not every trip.

Maybe it is that forums like this aren't 'cutting edge' internet social media any more, and the younger people are more likely to InstaGram it, or snapchat about it.

I really don't know.

But, I see 1911s about as often as .357 magnum revolvers- so we are in good company!
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Old December 17, 2018, 02:36 PM   #47
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I have three 1911's. My first was a Colt Series '80' with a 70's style collet bushing. I guess that's a rare combination - okay. I guess.

Quote:
Customers weren't greatly impressed with the Series 70 collet bushing
Mine broke. I was running hot ammo with a tired recoil spring. Lesson learned and have never broke one since. Fast forward 34 years and about 30,000 rounds, that Colt 1911 still runs like a champ. And tac-driver accurate.

I have since bought a Kimber and Springfield. Both are excellent guns. The Kimber in particular gets a workover. I don't pamper it.

I did my digress first. Here's my actual answer to the OP's question:

Speaking for myself:

No semi-auto - or any handgun, actually - fits better in my hand. Every one I have ever held in either hand, feels completely natural and seems like it's just asking to be put to work. My hands are small and the short Combat style trigger is a must (my Kimber immediately got that conversion). Pure shooting pleasure.

The other side is that I handload my own ammo. 45 ACP is the easiest - dare I say the funnest - semi-auto handgun cartridge to load. So there's that too.

1911's rock. Love 'em!
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Old December 17, 2018, 02:37 PM   #48
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Frankly jmstr, both placement and capacity are important concerns. I feel the capacity component is what obviously most impacts the sales of 1911 model pistols in this day and age.
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Old December 17, 2018, 03:00 PM   #49
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1911's are classic handguns and they are very pleasing to the eyes. There are still people out there who believe that plastic does not belong on a gun and prefers old wood and steel. Of course, there are 1911's with plastic grips too but overall, it does not subtract from the original design.

They are also relatively simple and rugged enough to withstand battlefield conditions and got a fairly long track record to prove it. Some folks like me prefer external hammers on a handgun because I was raised on revolvers.

That said, I absolutely enjoy shooting and carrying my Kahr. It is a very close repro of the original World War II US GI 1911 handgun with a few minute changes.
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Old December 17, 2018, 03:36 PM   #50
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The Browning HP was designed around the 9MMP so it cannot be manufactured as a 45 without major redesign while an M1911 can be manufactured in smaller calibers with less effort.
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