Rifles in old Tarzan movies,,,

[aarondhgraham]

So I was indulging myself in a bit of nostalgia Saturday,,,
Being it was my birthday and all.

I remember in the late 50's/early 60's,,,
There was a Saturday morning show called Jungle Theater,,,
I would get up early to watch some show about Great White Hunters.

Mom always asked me why I could leap up at 6:00 every Saturday,,,
But she had to dynamite me out of bed on school days.

Anyways, while I was watching Tarzan and His Mate,,,
I was trying to identify the rifles they carried.

I could have sworn I saw a 30-40 Krag-Jorgensen being carried,,,
But I couldn't get a good enough view even when I paused it.

The men carried lighter bolt-action rifles,,,
They had gun-bearers for those HUGE double rifles,,,
I think one man shot an elephant with what looked like a 4-Bore.

Then on to the next movie, Tarzan's Secret Treasure,,,
I could have sworn that the hunters carried Krags,,,
That side door is very unique as far as I know.

Then in Tarzan's Now York Adventure I confirmed it,,,
Both of the animal trappers carried Krags,,,
No doubt about it.

I wonder if there were actual 30-40 Krags in Africa,,,
Or if this was just a couple of rifles the prop company's had on hand.

I owned a Krag way back in the time I was watching those movies,,,
I can't believe that I never noticed them before.

Aarond

.

[T. O'Heir]

The Tarzan movies were made in Hollywood. They have nothing to do with reality, but they were also what most North Americans thought Africa was like.
Tarzan and His Mate, made in 1934(Tarzan's Now York Adventure was 1942), very likely did have Krags in it. Supplied by Stembridge Gun rentals(who supplied most of the firearms seen in all movies until 1999.).
In those days, a bolt action was a bolt action and nobody knew what a Krag was. In 1934, a Krag was probably the easiest bolt action for them to provide.

[aarondhgraham]

They did have a listing for Tarzan's Secret Treasure.

Click here please.

I was correct about the pistol being a Colt,,,
but it's a New Service instead of a 1917.

I was also correct (even though I didn't mention it),,,
About one evil guy using a BAR to try and kill Tarzan.

You're probably correct,,,
What the prop house had on hand.

Aarond

.

[Dano4734]

But I really want one of those double barrel elephant guns the sarfari guys would carry. What were they anyway. I never knew

[dahermit]

Speaking of Krags, Sgt. Schultz on Hogan's Heroes carries a Krag. It occured to me that instead of a 30-40 Krag, it may have supposed to be a Danish or Norwegian Krag, German captures (they did occupy both countries).
So, for you WWII historians out there, is the fact that Sgt. Schultz has a Krag, authentic or was it an incorrect 30-40 Krag via prop rental?

[jmr40]

I have no doubt that the Kraig was probably quite commonly used in Africa. As were other smaller caliber rifles. Most of them were used for protection from other human threats and to hunt jungle and plains game, not the bigger animals. They were avoided if possible, but even smaller rifles could be very effective.

WD Bell was the most prolific elephant hunter of all time taking somewhere over 1000 of them during the early to mid 1900's. The majority taken with a 275 Rigby, but he used the 303, and even the 6.5X54 as well as others. He killed 23 buffalo to feed locals with a 22 Hi Power one year.

[aarondhgraham]

Yep, it's a Krag.

Aarond

.

[Mike Irwin]

"So, for you WWII historians out there, is the fact that Sgt. Schultz has a Krag, authentic or was it an incorrect 30-40 Krag via prop rental?"

Likely not.

Stalags were located in Germany itself. Stalag 13 (Hogan's Heros) would have been located in Germany.

The Germans very happily took firearms of conquered nations into service, but unless they were chambered in one of the standard cartridges, kept them in the nation where they were captured. Thus, many German troops in France manning the Atlantic Wall were armed with 7.5mm MAS rifles.

[Dano4734]

My old uncle hunted with a krag. Heaviest rifle I ever held. He was a wwii fighter ace. Skinny guy but lugged that thing till the day he died. Bagged lots of deer

[Rachen]

I have no doubt that the Kraig was probably quite commonly used in Africa. As were other smaller caliber rifles. Most of them were used for protection from other human threats and to hunt jungle and plains game, not the bigger animals. They were avoided if possible, but even smaller rifles could be very effective.

Yep, wanted to drop my two cents in here and this is pretty much it. Remember, in the expanding world of the late 19th century, small arms is the highest traded commodity in the world. They are needed everywhere. During the Taiping Rebellion, British P-1853 rifled muskets were imported en-masse into China and were used by both sides. Then the Qing Dynasty upped the ante by importing US-made Spencer rifles. Soon after the first shipments, the Qing and private munitions plants contracted with them started producing their own Spencers. Short barreled musketoons, Officer's Models with tapered half-stocks and regular infantry muskets were made until the 1880s, when the Type-88 Hanyang became the standard-issue long arm, and remained so until 1953.

The Krags that are encountered in Africa in the latter part of the 19th century would have mostly been civilian market versions, carried in by explorers, soldiers of fortune, and hunting parties. It is one of the symbols of the colonization of Africa by Anglo-American and European powers. Along with the pith helmet and the Martini-Henry.

[Jim Watson]

I dare say the various Lee and Mauser designs outnumbered the Krag about a zillion to one in Africa. In particular, the .303 was used on everything that walks, crawls or flies in the Old Empire. I know John Taylor does not mention the .30-40 at all.

Krags were sold off cheap after the 1903 came in, easy for prop departments to stock up on.

But what civilian market Krags are those, Rachen? Danish? Norwegian? I never heard of a US Krag on the civilian side except as Army surplus.

Trivia: The .30 Purdey is the same chamber as the .30-40 Krag but loaded hotter for strong single and double rifles.

[Rachen]

But what civilian market Krags are those, Rachen? Danish? Norwegian? I never heard of a US Krag on the civilian side except as Army surplus.

Danish ones at first. The .303 British may be one of the most popular big-game rounds but Krags would have been on the list of those who took them there too. And just like today, there would have been small proxy wars raging in Africa and Europeans would have been selling a lot of weapons to one side or another. And then US surplus ones after 1906, when Springfield '03's began replacing the military service Krags. The Krag was in service with the US Army for just 12 years and after the contract ended, there would be a quite a large number of lightly used rifles.

Also in 1919, the US sold a lot of surplus small arms to Liberia at discount. A lot of them could have been Krags.

[eastbank]

the krag in the hogens hero,s was a u.s. krag. look at the bore size-rear sight and bayonet lug along with the sling and sling attactments.

[Mike Irwin]

I forgot that the Nazi did manufacture some Krags in Norway for the 8mm Mauser.

Regarding sporting rifle versions, my guess is that not that many of them made their way to Africa at all.

As far as I know, neither the Norwegians or Danes had a colonial presence in Africa, while the British and Germans did, and that was the basis for much of the popularity of the 8mm and .303 on the Dark Continent.

[Ricklin]

Quote: But I really want one of those double barrel elephant guns the sarfari guys would carry. What were they anyway. I never knew


You had best have a serious bank account balance!

Purdy, Holland and Holland, and Rigby can all hook you up. Real easy to spend 100 K on one. A new one requires several years and of course the $$$.

Give the brits a few years under brexit and they might get cheaper.......just kidding, they are more a work of art than a gun.

Go to Gunbroker and do double rifle as a search term. Try not to drool on your screen.

[Rachen]

As far as I know, neither the Norwegians or Danes had a colonial presence in Africa, while the British and Germans did

The Danes had a small chain of trading forts and castles on the West Coast, from the 1600s to the 1850s, and after that, they sold all of these forts to the British. After 1850, the Danes in Africa would have been solitary adventure-seekers trying to find riches or hunt big game, mercenaries serving in the armies of the other European powers, or archaeologists.

[Jim Watson]

Continental and American double Express rifles are less expensive than English Best; $12000 to $25000 range.
Once upon a time you could get obsolete guns for much less, if you didn't mind Adventures in Handloading. A friend has a .450 BPE hammer Webley. Steel barrels, safe with Nitro For Black loads.

[Mike Irwin]

When I worked for NRA we got a Ferlach double rifle in for testing.

Chambered in .470 Nitro.

That was, to put it mildly, sporty when the trigger was pulled.

[T. O'Heir]

"...many German troops in France manning the Atlantic Wall..." Weren't Germans either.
Double rifles start at roughly 9 grand USD for a Merkel .470 NE at Cabela's in Columbus, Ohio. Ammo starts at $130US per 10.
Mind you, there's a BNIB Holland & Holland .450 Nitro Express 'Royal’ Double Rifle currently available in their Dallas show room for $265,000USD. Hornady ammo is currently on 'clearance' at Midway for $95.99 per 20.
They separate the men from the boys by the price of their toys. snicker.

[ThomasT]

Speaking of Krags, Sgt. Schultz on Hogan's Heroes carries a Krag. It occured to me that instead of a 30-40 Krag, it may have supposed to be a Danish or Norwegian Krag, German captures (they did occupy both countries).
So, for you WWII historians out there, is the fact that Sgt. Schultz has a Krag, authentic or was it an incorrect 30-40 Krag via prop rental?

John Banner (Sgt Shultz) was jewish. A big part of his family was killed by the Nazi's and of course he hated them. Thats why he played the part of a "stupid" "I know nothing" German soldier. And he refused to carry a Mauser 98 so was supplied with the Krag rifle he used.

And the new Tarzan series with Ron Ely was filmed in Mexico.

[Jim Watson]

And he refused to carry a Mauser 98 so was supplied with the Krag rifle he used.

Which seems strange, considering the large numbers of WWII German Mausers that Israel deployed.

[Drm50]

A friend of mine was left a Double rifle by his uncle when we were around 14 yrs
old. The Kid had no interest in it and wanted to sell it. The gun was a WW2 bring
home in a large metric cartridge of around 45 cal, 11.?? X mm. German or Ausrian made. Gun wasn't fancy but in good shape. Kid wanted $100 for it and
my Dad taked me out of buying it on basis of ammo would be hard to get. I've
only had a chance at two double rifles and we're both back in 60s and both $100
didn't get to buy either. Today price would make you head spin.

[Dano4734]

Reminds me of the chevy dealer who had a used 64 vet with the t-top. Mint it was 1970 and my mom talked me out of spending the 1800 dollars I saved

[ThomasT]

Which seems strange, considering the large numbers of WWII German Mausers that Israel deployed.

I guess the Israilies used what ever they could get their hands on. Banner was under no pressure to use a 98 Mauser. Most never knew the difference anyway.