|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
April 18, 2021, 10:44 AM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 8,927
|
Delete
Last edited by Bart B.; April 20, 2021 at 10:32 AM. |
April 18, 2021, 11:05 AM | #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 8,927
|
The accuracy achievement most disbelieved is probably the 600 yard test groups shot by USN 7.62 Garands with 1:12 twist barrels. New M118 match ammo primed cases were stuffed with 44 grains of IMR4320 and a Sierra 190 HPMK. 10-shot groups maximum ES of 4 inches; .67 MOA.
Last edited by Bart B.; April 19, 2021 at 05:18 PM. |
April 18, 2021, 01:35 PM | #28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 8, 2015
Posts: 1,021
|
|
April 19, 2021, 04:00 AM | #29 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 1, 2009
Posts: 4,232
|
Cortina's books/video's no more help put an elk in the freezer than me reading a book or watching videos on elk stalking techniques would help me put 20 consecutive rounds into a target at 800 yards. So I don't bother watching elk stalking videos
As my dad used to tell me "everything is not about you"
__________________
“How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; April 19, 2021 at 10:48 AM. |
April 21, 2021, 01:04 PM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 17, 2013
Posts: 168
|
|
April 21, 2021, 06:38 PM | #31 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 4,308
|
I'd be willing to best all of his rifles have full chassis or at least mini-chassis in them already.
|
April 22, 2021, 08:36 AM | #32 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 8,927
|
What competitive shooting disciplines require the most marksmanship skills?
|
April 22, 2021, 08:54 AM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 4,308
|
Easy one. 3Gun. No other is even close.
|
April 22, 2021, 10:42 AM | #34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 8,927
|
Is 3 gun a bullseye pistol discipline?
|
April 22, 2021, 11:04 AM | #35 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 3,974
|
3 gun, I would have to agree. It has pistol, rifle, and shotgun. At varied ranges, requiring accuracy in all 3 disciplines
__________________
I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload. |
April 22, 2021, 11:49 AM | #36 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 21, 1998
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 4,308
|
Quote:
Not for the faint of heart, one trick ponies or those who don't have the fundamentals down. |
|
April 22, 2021, 12:27 PM | #37 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 8,927
|
Does every multi-discipline "World" shooting championship winner get to use his own arms and ammo?
If not, the best marksman can lose because the arms he's issued may not shoot the issued ammo most accurate. Last edited by Bart B.; April 22, 2021 at 01:21 PM. |
April 22, 2021, 12:52 PM | #38 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 3,974
|
Quote:
Having to deal with issued guns or ammo is an equipment issue not related to marksmanship skills and does not effect the skills of the shooter, only what the gun/ammo is capable of doing . 3 gun has 3 disciplines, each having their own nuances. In my opinion it takes the most marksmanship skills to be at a high level on all 3, than to focus exclusively on one.
__________________
I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload. |
|
April 22, 2021, 01:32 PM | #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 8,927
|
How close to call do you want rifle and pistol bullets to strike; 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1 or 2 MOA?
My issue is if each discipline's firearm shooting bullets are not equally accurate, scores fired will be influenced by luck of the draw. Last edited by Bart B.; April 22, 2021 at 02:00 PM. |
April 22, 2021, 03:41 PM | #40 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 3,974
|
Quote:
I am sure there are, but I am unaware of competitions that are based off of group size alone. Marksmanship is the ability to put rounds on a specified target not how small of a group you can shoot. In competition the format in which the targets are set up and scored is used to judge the marksmanship ability of the shooter. That can be X ring hits at 1000yds with a heavy gun from a stable platform. or hitting a steel IPCS unsupported while moving with a pistol. you asked "What competitive shooting disciplines require the most marksmanship skills? " I still say 3 gun. It is not focused on utter precision, but it makes up for that by adding other factors like unstable shooting platforms, time, movement and elevated hear rates, challenging shooting positions and multiple targets in challenging orders and different weapon platforms. It is simply different format for measuring marksmanship. And we are way off topic....
__________________
I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload. |
|
April 22, 2021, 04:23 PM | #41 | |
Staff
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,833
|
Quote:
However the way the show was down there was less marksmanship and more "luck" involved than anything else. The guns were supplied, as was the ammo. Each shooter got a few shots to familiarize themselves with the gun, but were NOT allowed to adjust sights or otherwise sight in the guns for themselves. So, literally, the shot going where the sights were aimed was a matter of luck of the draw. Close was common but being right on was not something you could count on, and right on for one shooter could easily be just a bit off for the next. Targets were mostly reactive, lot of fun watching them break but also seeing shooter just barely miss the bottle due to lack of being able to sight in the gun for themselves just put the lie to "marksmanship" being a factor, in my view.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
|
April 22, 2021, 04:40 PM | #42 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 3,974
|
That was an entertaining show. But I was not a fan of they way they chose people for elimination until the last season. Also I really did not like the way then went in cold to a lot of the challenges and were given a gun to shoot that they were not familiar with, or had not had a chance to really shoot and understand that individual gun.
__________________
I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload. |
April 22, 2021, 06:41 PM | #43 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 1, 2009
Posts: 4,232
|
Shadow is right
Mirriam- Webster a person skilled in shooting at a mark or target small 5 and even 10 shot groups have a huge luck factor look at all the benchrest records that were set by people you never heard of 5, 10 20 and 30 years back that have never been broken
__________________
“How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek |
April 22, 2021, 08:34 PM | #44 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 7, 2009
Location: Not saying b/c I dont want any of you crazy people to rob or kill me. Alright it's Tulsa , Oklahoma
Posts: 224
|
I am about to go off on a 280 AI long range quest. I have never shot more than 100-200 yards.
I have been watching Erik's videos for awhile now. Before I buy dies I want to know what his process is. I know he talks about just buying Lapua brass, but besides that. I have seen him use a universal decapping die and not a neck sizer or expander ball type. He uses a an FL sizing die to bump the shoulders back. Also it looks as though he uses like an LE Wilson chamber seating die with a hydro press so he can measure seat pressure. Is this what you're seeing? |
April 22, 2021, 10:50 PM | #45 |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,468
|
This discussion is getting very far afield. This is the Reloading discussion area. The post that opened this discussion wasn't about firearms or marksmanship or which type of competition is the most difficult -- it was about a system (or maybe a philosophy) of reloading. Let's get back to the topic and quit squabbling over matters that belong in other discussion areas.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic |
April 22, 2021, 10:51 PM | #46 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 6,876
|
Quote:
Now you have haha , the rifle showed no improvement in accuracy so I popped the bedding back out . For those trying to bed your action for the first time . A trick you might want to try is use model clay as a test/dry run . This will give you an idea how much material to use and where it gets pushed to .
__________________
If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
|
April 22, 2021, 10:51 PM | #47 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 3,974
|
Quote:
Yes that seems correct on the rest of it I would also add he states he anneals the necks every time, and likes berger bullets, but also seems to have lapua bullets as well, but that may be due to his sponsorship by them.
__________________
I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload. |
|
April 23, 2021, 09:32 AM | #48 |
Staff
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 21,063
|
I think with all the topic drift from Cortina's loading method to pretty much anything that affects accuracy and including things that really belong in the gun smithing forum, this one has run its course.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle |
|
|