9mm Help With my Dillon XL650

rageous · January 17, 2019, 11:14 AM

What would cause this scratching on my casings, this is most annoying. Dillon Dies and XL650. I have removed and cleaned the die, my casings and die are all squeaky clean. What gives???
Thanks for your help with this issue.
Mike

Don P · January 17, 2019, 11:47 AM

Try lubing the cases. Scratches on the cases indicate dirt in the die/dies. Do you tumble your brass before reloading?
After looking at your photo closer crimp looks awful at the case mouth. Are your dies adjusted correctly?

kmw1954 · January 17, 2019, 01:03 PM

Yes those are tooling marks from the dies. Dirty or damaged.

rageous · January 17, 2019, 02:28 PM

Don P see attachment I doubt you could get my brass much cleaner as I stated in my lead post "Squeaky Clean" brass and Die.

egd · January 17, 2019, 03:21 PM

You said it yourself--squeaky clean. IMO, they are too clean,er dry; both cases and die probably. Try a little lube--little, don't need much. After running a few with lube the die will get a little rubbed into it and I'll bet you'll see a big difference.

rageous · January 17, 2019, 03:27 PM

egd
I lube with Dillon lube as instructed and sometimes use Hornady One Shot, same results. Just weird...

gwpercle · January 17, 2019, 04:46 PM

Carbide dies work so much better , easier and without the galling when you hit them with a little spray lube.
Take some Lee Case Lube, dissolve in denatured alcohol , put in a spray bottle ...mist the cases and roll them around , in 60 seconds they are dry and the wax based lube does wonders .
Gary

kmw1954 · January 17, 2019, 05:23 PM

Do the marks go all the way around or just part way? I do not know anything about Dillon Presses but could it be that your press is out of time with the shell plate and dies?

ed308 · January 17, 2019, 07:26 PM

My Dillon 650 and Dillon dies don't leave marks like that. Try running some new brass through the press with and without lube and see what results you get. Got be the dies.

LE-28 · January 17, 2019, 07:26 PM

That looks like his resizing die is fouled out. It picked up brass and is scratching everything that goes in it.

I don't know anything about Dillon dies either but those scratches are from the resizing die picking up on the cases. Gauling.
That does come from lack of lubrication in steel dies and carbide dies both.

If your dies are carbide and you are cleaning with wet tumbling and steel pins you definitely need to lube your cases before running them through any kind of resizing dies. There is such a thing as getting them to clean.

Carbide dies will foul out and gauld also. Try cleaning your resizing die with copper cleaner like you would with a rifle barrel. Clean it completely then get some spray lube and spray your cases with it.

By the way, your crimps are way over done. Your bullet seating or crimp die is set too low.

jag2 · January 17, 2019, 07:50 PM

Get piece of 0000 steel wool that you can jam in the die, wrap around a screw driver bit for power drill. You are basically reaming out the die with the steel wool. Use a big enough piece so that it is tight in the die. You’ll have to figure out the details with whatever you have but it should work. It would also be good to apply some sort cleaner like CLR.

**Unclenick** · January 17, 2019, 10:19 PM

Rageous,

It looks to me like you have a couple of issues. First, if you have a standard SAAMI 9mm throat, the bearing surface of the bullet (the cylindrical part) can only stick out about 0.043" from the case mouth before it starts to contact the throat, and yours appear to be about 3 times that far out of the case, so I would expect them to fail to let the gun close on them.

Many folks are aware of the SAAMI maximum cartridge length, often the only number published in a manual, but not of the minimum cartridge length. For 9mm the range is 1.000 "to 1.169". In Hornady's manual, for example, the 115-grain XTP and HAP bullets are seated to 1.075". The bullet maker can almost always tell you what your bullet should have as a COL.

Second, the crimps look like you jammed the case mouth past the crimp shoulder in the crimping die. You could be jamming the case mouth so hard that the case is expanding into the sides of the sizing die and scratching against it. I don't have any 9mm Dillon dies, so I can't see if it is narrow enough to let that happen or not. The cause may still be at the sizing die, but the crimp has to be fixed or it can be dangerous (see below).

The first thing to do is to see for certain at which station the case picks up the scuff marks. Look at it after sizing to see if the marks are already there. If so, call Dillon, as the die needs to be polished or replaced. I would let them do it if you haven't tried anything like that before. Take advantage of the lifetime warranty. Next, I would reset your seating die to produce the correct COL for your particular bullet. Lastly, you need to back the crimp out until it just closes the flare put on the case by the power drop tube in the Dillon, and not much more. Calipers across the mouth of the case must show it to measure between 0.373" and 0.3800" in diameter. If you crush it down smaller than that, you can fail to headspace on the end of the chamber and the case can slip inside the throat and cause excess pressure because there is no room for it to open up to release the bullet.

January 17, 2019, 11:47 AM	#2
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Try lubing the cases. Scratches on the cases indicate dirt in the die/dies. Do you tumble your brass before reloading? After looking at your photo closer crimp looks awful at the case mouth. Are your dies adjusted correctly? __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

January 17, 2019, 03:27 PM	#6
rageous Junior Member Join Date: October 27, 2015 Location: Colorado Posts: 3	egd I lube with Dillon lube as instructed and sometimes use Hornady One Shot, same results. Just weird... __________________ Mike WØMJM

January 17, 2019, 07:26 PM	#9
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	My Dillon 650 and Dillon dies don't leave marks like that. Try running some new brass through the press with and without lube and see what results you get. Got be the dies. Last edited by ed308; January 17, 2019 at 09:59 PM.

January 17, 2019, 10:19 PM	#12
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Rageous, It looks to me like you have a couple of issues. First, if you have a standard SAAMI 9mm throat, the bearing surface of the bullet (the cylindrical part) can only stick out about 0.043" from the case mouth before it starts to contact the throat, and yours appear to be about 3 times that far out of the case, so I would expect them to fail to let the gun close on them. Many folks are aware of the SAAMI maximum cartridge length, often the only number published in a manual, but not of the minimum cartridge length. For 9mm the range is 1.000 "to 1.169". In Hornady's manual, for example, the 115-grain XTP and HAP bullets are seated to 1.075". The bullet maker can almost always tell you what your bullet should have as a COL. Second, the crimps look like you jammed the case mouth past the crimp shoulder in the crimping die. You could be jamming the case mouth so hard that the case is expanding into the sides of the sizing die and scratching against it. I don't have any 9mm Dillon dies, so I can't see if it is narrow enough to let that happen or not. The cause may still be at the sizing die, but the crimp has to be fixed or it can be dangerous (see below). The first thing to do is to see for certain at which station the case picks up the scuff marks. Look at it after sizing to see if the marks are already there. If so, call Dillon, as the die needs to be polished or replaced. I would let them do it if you haven't tried anything like that before. Take advantage of the lifetime warranty. Next, I would reset your seating die to produce the correct COL for your particular bullet. Lastly, you need to back the crimp out until it just closes the flare put on the case by the power drop tube in the Dillon, and not much more. Calipers across the mouth of the case must show it to measure between 0.373" and 0.3800" in diameter. If you crush it down smaller than that, you can fail to headspace on the end of the chamber and the case can slip inside the throat and cause excess pressure because there is no room for it to open up to release the bullet. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

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January 17, 2019, 01:03 PM	#3
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	Yes those are tooling marks from the dies. Dirty or damaged.

January 17, 2019, 03:21 PM	#5
egd Member Join Date: April 15, 2016 Posts: 73	You said it yourself--squeaky clean. IMO, they are too clean,er dry; both cases and die probably. Try a little lube--little, don't need much. After running a few with lube the die will get a little rubbed into it and I'll bet you'll see a big difference.

January 17, 2019, 04:46 PM	#7
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	Carbide dies work so much better , easier and without the galling when you hit them with a little spray lube. Take some Lee Case Lube, dissolve in denatured alcohol , put in a spray bottle ...mist the cases and roll them around , in 60 seconds they are dry and the wax based lube does wonders . Gary

January 17, 2019, 05:23 PM	#8
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	Do the marks go all the way around or just part way? I do not know anything about Dillon Presses but could it be that your press is out of time with the shell plate and dies?

January 17, 2019, 07:26 PM	#10
LE-28 Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2012 Location: North Carolina Posts: 759	That looks like his resizing die is fouled out. It picked up brass and is scratching everything that goes in it. I don't know anything about Dillon dies either but those scratches are from the resizing die picking up on the cases. Gauling. That does come from lack of lubrication in steel dies and carbide dies both. If your dies are carbide and you are cleaning with wet tumbling and steel pins you definitely need to lube your cases before running them through any kind of resizing dies. There is such a thing as getting them to clean. Carbide dies will foul out and gauld also. Try cleaning your resizing die with copper cleaner like you would with a rifle barrel. Clean it completely then get some spray lube and spray your cases with it. By the way, your crimps are way over done. Your bullet seating or crimp die is set too low.

January 17, 2019, 07:50 PM	#11
jag2 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: dallas Posts: 773	Get piece of 0000 steel wool that you can jam in the die, wrap around a screw driver bit for power drill. You are basically reaming out the die with the steel wool. Use a big enough piece so that it is tight in the die. You’ll have to figure out the details with whatever you have but it should work. It would also be good to apply some sort cleaner like CLR.