What exactly makes a 1911 so much more expensive?

desibaba · May 19, 2016, 03:10 PM

I am fairly new to firearms so please excuse my ignorance but I am curious about the 1911 pistols. I own Springfield XDm 9mm 4.5 inch and out the door with taxes I paid under $600 for my gun. My gun has overall received great reviews at every 3rd party source I looked at. What exactly makes a 9mm 1911 such as this one so much more expensive? Is it the parts? The amount of labor it takes to make one? Obviously a Chevy Aveo and a Mercedes E Class both get driven and both have 4 wheels but there is no comparison between them. Is that the same case between a 1911 and a regular 9mm. I saw this one and the price is mind blowing.

http://shop.bravocompanymfg.com/Brav...m-1911-9mm.htm

Roughedge · May 19, 2016, 03:18 PM

To get a good 1911 there is a lot of hand fit parts that takes time. If you build one with quality part it will be a grand for the parts and 10 to 20 hours of fitting.
All you have to do with a XDm is put it together.

RickB · May 19, 2016, 03:42 PM

Check out the price of even a cast 1911 frame; $150-$250, depending on features. A frame fully machined from a forging can cost twice as much.
Contrast that with a plastic-framed gun that is probably $5-worth of plastic and a metal insert that's cast and then minimally finish-machined.

If you took apart a half-dozen Springfield Armory 1911s, you could probably swap the parts around without much trouble, but if you tried to swap parts between a Springfield and a Les Baer or Ed Brown pistol, it would be like swapping parts between a Chevy and a Mercedes.

If everyone in the business built "1911s" to military specs, it wouldn't be an issue, as was proved during WWII when completely interchangeable pistols were made by five different companies.

James K · May 19, 2016, 04:38 PM

A good part of the cost of handguns today, especially those made in the U.S., is insurance. Few insurance companies will insure gun makers, so many are self insured, which means that a substantial part of the cost of each gun goes to a fund to cover lawsuits. Foreign makers don't have that burden; if they lose a suit, they simply pull out of the U.S. market.

Jim

P71pilot · May 19, 2016, 05:05 PM

All of the 49 or so parts making up a series 70 style 5" 1911 have to be machined and made to specific tolerances to properly work together. All of these 49 parts must be made of high quality material and heat treated properly. They require some amount of hand fitting and have to be assembled by human hands. But what you end up with is a fine handgun that is easy to shoot accurately, very mechanically accurate, take into combat reliable, and can be customized in thousands of thousands of ways.

There are different levels of 1911 quality

-$300-500 tier, (RIA, tisas, ATI, charles daly, Armscor, etc) which consists of mostly foreign made pistols, with cheaply made parts and put together very quickly. These can be and usually are reliable, but they suffer from parts breakages and factory defects more often than higher quality guns.

-$600-1000 tier, (ruger, Taurus, kimber,Sig, Springfield, Colt, S&W, Magnum research, Bul, para, Remington, etc) which are mass produced pistols, but generally speaking the parts are higher quality, and these guns get more time fitting parts together. This is the most popular category of 1911s and there are models available in 9mm, .38 super auto, .40S&W, .45acp, and 10mm auto

-next is the $1200-$2000 branch (Colt, Springfield, S&W, Dan Wesson, Les baer, kimber, Sig), which is usually called something like semi production or semi custom. They have higher quality parts and a lot of hand fitting things.

Finally the well over 2 grand mark which is made up of wilsons, ed browns, some Les bears, fusions, nighthawks, etc...

These use only the finest parts and everything is precisely fit together and can be changed to your liking

tallball · May 19, 2016, 06:16 PM

A younger person buying one of their first handguns probably won't and/or can't pay more than $500.

An older person is more likely to be a 1911 fan and more likely to have enough money to pay over $500.

I have paid about $1650 total for my four 1911's, but I am a very patient bargain shopper.

boondocker385 · May 19, 2016, 07:58 PM

Unless you have the 1911 bug, stay away from them unless you want to spend big $$$ for reliability AND accuracy. The fanboys will tell you I am wrong but they have the bug...
YMMV

I have one currently, RIA and it is reliable with ball ammo and ok in t he accuracy department. Had a Limber that was accurate but fouled and had to be cleaned every woo rounds to remain reliable. Had a Led Baer that was accurate and reliable. Sold it for 2 glocks, 2 S&W revolvers and had money left over.

YMMV

shootniron · May 19, 2016, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Unless you have the 1911 bug, stay away from them unless you want to spend big $$$ for reliability AND accuracy. The fanboys will tell you I am wrong but they have the bug...

B.S...and I ain't a fanboy, but I do have a couple of cheap ones that are reliable. It is so bad, that so many talk about stuff that they have no knowledge of. But, gun forums are filled with those like you.

gyvel · May 19, 2016, 09:03 PM

Quote:

if you tried to swap parts between a Springfield and a Les Baer or Ed Brown pistol, it would be like swapping parts between a Chevy and a Mercedes.

That's coz, much like the Germans, Les Baer and Ed Brown can't drill two holes the same size.

makarov · May 19, 2016, 11:18 PM

To answer your original question, your XD is made in Croatia. It is about global economies and marketing. Before Springfield started marketing them the Croatian pistols could be had for under $200. Granted that was a few years ago. They are well made and Springfield can slap their name on them and market them for a good profit.

Ruger makes a decent 1911 and it isn't too expensive. I've heard good things about Taurus as well. I lucked out and bought a Dan Wesson Pointman Seven before they became well known and were eventually bought by CZ.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 20, 2016, 12:01 AM

You're looking at a brand with no history making 1911s. I doubt that Bravo Company sells many at that price point because, frankly, it's ridiculous. You can buy some models of genuine Colt 1911s for under $800, and you can buy very serviceable 1911s from other makers for $500 (or a bit less).

stompah · May 20, 2016, 12:28 AM

Plastic vs Metal. Make the same XDM frame out of metal and it will no longer be $600 out the door.

darkgael · May 20, 2016, 12:35 AM

Reliability......If I am a fanboy, I have good reason to be so. Both of my 1911s - a Colt Gold Cup and a Springfield "loaded" have been marvelously reliable. The Colt has upwards of 60,000 rounds through it and rarely a hiccup (and those can be traced to reloaded ammo issues as opposed to a mechanical fault in the gun itself).
Pete

Heracles · May 20, 2016, 01:07 AM

profit and advertisement

scoobysnacker · May 20, 2016, 04:44 AM

First, it costs less for the materials to make a plastic gun. Then, it costs more for any fitting that might be required. It also costs more or less for the labor, depending on where the gun came from.

But you're also looking at market prices, and what people are willing to pay.

A good cast frame like the Tisas 1911, with minimal fitting done (just quality control and assembly), will set you back between $300-$400.
If you check the prices of hi-capacity polymer frame 9mms coming from Canik (in other words the same country), it's around the same range.

JWT · May 20, 2016, 12:57 PM

The Ruger SR1911s are darned good guns for their modest prices. At a higher price point I'm a fan of Dan Wessons' offerings. The difference between an entry level 1911 and higher prices ones becomes obvious when comparing the fit and finish. As with most purchases, you get what you pay for.

osbornk · May 20, 2016, 06:52 PM

Quote:

A younger person buying one of their first handguns probably won't and/or can't pay more than $500.

An older person is more likely to be a 1911 fan and more likely to have enough money to pay over $500.

I don't think that is accurate. I bought my first 1911 at 68 years old and I can afford any gun I want. I had wanted a 1911 for many years but didn't even look because people kept telling me how expensive they were. A year or two ago, I ran across someone talking about a RIA 1911 for under $400 and I started researching. I decided to try one and chose a full size tactical model for just under $500 based on my under $500 self imposed limit. It is the most accurate of my 7 handguns and it has never malfunctioned in any way.

I guess I'm just old and cheap. ( There's a reason I retired debt free at 55.)

briandg · May 20, 2016, 08:34 PM

A glock is like front wheel drive and McPherson strut design. They are far better designs regarding weight, cost, easy manufacturing.

I don't believe that you will ever find a 1911 that can be priced like a plastic frame.

1969Colt1911 · May 21, 2016, 02:44 AM

Because its a gun designed so long ago. I was brought into shooting on a S70 in the 70s. Much more fun things for a kid to do, but dad took me out for shooting a 45ACP gun. It's one day in life , but sometimes things stick. It's a fun sport for some of us in shooting and/ or collecting. But I got in trouble early with those early S70 days with Colts. Stuck in my head and I thought I was Magnum PI with gun in jeans no holster.

1969Colt1911 · May 21, 2016, 05:20 AM

I said I got in trouble, meaning I got hooked on this specific gun is all. I am also hooked on specific 45acp caliber and 5" barrel. Everything else would be foreign , except I did my homework. And know there are other makers and different slide lengths available. Simple homework exceptionally in this modern platform in a days work. To know everything I know, to own what I've had forget it. Will not happen and wouldn't matter, because not to many. Remington UMC, Pythons, Gold Cups, 1916 Colt 1911 Commercial, 1991s from 1990s, Colt Cowboy(never see those available anymore). About it as far as my sht

CDW4ME · May 21, 2016, 07:09 AM

Dan Wesson Valor is a best value "top tier" 1911, hand fitted tool steel small parts.

http://cz-usa.com/product/dw-valor-4...hts-8-rd-mags/

Edit: Stainless 9mm 1911 retail ~ $1,700

One could spend a bit less $$$ for a 1911 and have something other than tool steel parts (MIM) if one is satisfied with the compromise.

My Glocks that are newer than ~2008 have a steel striker and extractor installed, like the Glocks made prior to 2008, because I'm not big on compromise.