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Old September 11, 2018, 06:05 PM   #1
cw308
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Release the slide on a 1911

With your slide in the rear position and a full magazine installed , is it best to slingshot the slide or use the slide stop lever to release the slide.
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Old September 11, 2018, 06:30 PM   #2
Rangerrich99
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If you are thinking in SD terms, then you should use the thumb of your support hand to press the slid stop release instead of sling-shotting, as it's faster. Though I've had an instructor tell me to sling-shot the slide as it's more reliable. I guess it's a little how you want to do it.

Of course, if you insert the mag very firmly, basically ramming it home, that should be enough to release the slide stop and send the slide forward, which is how I train.
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Old September 11, 2018, 06:46 PM   #3
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What's best is what you are accustomed to. You mentioned 1911, but do you own other types of semi-auto as well? If so, are the slide stops all in the same location? Chances are the slide is always on top of the frame ...

Most shooters in competition use the slide stop as a slide release, even adding slide stops with elongated paddles to facilitate this. When I entered competitions, I did it as practice for the event I hoped I would never encounter. I always release the slide by the slingshot method, because I'm fairly certain that under stress I won't slip up and miss the entire slide.
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Old September 11, 2018, 07:27 PM   #4
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I've always use the slingshot method , the position of the hand has changed from the back of the slide to the palm over the slids . On some occasions I have used the slide release lever , have never competed , I shoot with friends that have , I shoot rifle benchrest in the warm weather outdoors and 45ACP every Thursday morning with a different group of friends . Life is good over 70. Thanks guys for getting back so fast .Be Well

Chris
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Old September 11, 2018, 07:35 PM   #5
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My father in law always demanded that I pull the slide back and then gently ease it into place. Yah, whatever, no need to discuss him.

How much farther does that slide move from the rest position when you pull it back? 1/8 inch? Do we think that the spring gathers a significant amount of extra force when we pull it back all the way? No.

I have never used the thumb and forefinger method anyway, I grab the thing with my full left hand, and push and pull. Funny thing. my hands get sweaty. If I'm working with oily equipment and my hands are all wet, my thumbs sometimes slip off of what I'm handling. It's only one finger, and it's all thumbs. I'm not going to trust it.
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Old September 11, 2018, 08:31 PM   #6
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The push and pull method now is used most often , it is awkward for me , as a kid I was good with a slingshot maybe why it came natural to me . Your father in law seems to baby his 1911, guess you have to follow what he says using his firearms . Thanks for answering .

Chris
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Old September 11, 2018, 10:40 PM   #7
Shane Tuttle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briandg
How much farther does that slide move from the rest position when you pull it back? 1/8 inch? Do we think that the spring gathers a significant amount of extra force when we pull it back all the way? No.
As the spring is compressed, the amount of force applied is exponential. Many well respected instructors advocate the slingshot method for this very reason if time allows.
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Old September 12, 2018, 12:18 AM   #8
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I haven't had to worry about fast reloads thankfully but when I am reloading, to keep it consistent I just do the support hand over the slide, pull and release.
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Old September 12, 2018, 01:27 AM   #9
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For me, it's the sling shot method with authority...
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Old September 12, 2018, 01:43 AM   #10
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Be familiar with each method. Know what the gun can do, what you can do, and use as needed. Slingshot is fine, using the thumb or forefinger of the strong hand is good and using the off hand thumb also works. Use and know them all.

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Old September 12, 2018, 07:53 AM   #11
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By releasing the slide stop lever by lowering the lever with the thumb , does that cause more wear on the notch on the slide and on the lever itself ? By using the pull back methods the slide drops down the lever , it seems less stress on the parts . What's your feeling on this?
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Old September 12, 2018, 09:04 AM   #12
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Shane, it is correct that as a coil spring is compressed, the pressure needed increases, and the released energy is increased (maybe not exponentially) but at least on a curve.

What the point I was trying to make is, check for me. How much difference is there between the slide stop position, and the full extension position? then, it raises the question, is that extra amount of energy that is being released, regardless of whether the energy has built on a curve or just simple math, is that increase significant, or just interesting in a mathematical sense?

The 1911 isn't an hydraulic nailer. Stripping a round out of a magazine and guiding it into the barrel and then locking the barrel in place doesn't require a great deal of force.

Maybe you are reading too much into my post. my question was how much additional energy was gained by pulling the extra tenth of an inch, did it add a significant percentage, and would it actually benefit the mechanism.

I personally believe that every maker on the planet supplies springs that have a huge margin of safety build in. It is well recognized that using the slide stop to put a bullet into the chamber is common. Every maker of springs and guns will build in a huge margin of safety, adding enough strength to power a cartridge in through a greasy and dusty chamber with bunk build up on the slide and springs.

I believe that the issue could be resolved just by a little bit of research and consideration of the situation. I've never witnessed a centerfire fail to attain battery by releasing the slide stop. logically, it shouldn't be a problem, the problem should be fixed in advance.
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Old September 12, 2018, 09:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
By releasing the slide stop lever by lowering the lever with the thumb , does that cause more wear on the notch on the slide and on the lever itself ? By using the pull back methods the slide drops down the lever , it seems less stress on the parts . What's your feeling on this?
Your slide stop and your slide are essentially two flat surfaces that meet at identical angles. These surfaces are identical to the sears in most triggers. when the last bit of resistance is overcome, the surfaces pull apart and the slide goes forward.

Neither slide nor release are made of hardened steel meant to last for millions of cycles, but they aren't really very demanding. Even if the thing gets sloppy, it will continue to work. I don't know if wearing out that part is really possible during the lifetime of a gun.
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Old September 12, 2018, 09:14 AM   #14
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By releasing the slide stop lever by lowering the lever with the thumb , does that cause more wear on the notch on the slide and on the lever itself ?
The same is true of the thumb safety, the grip safety, the extractor, the hammer, trigger, mag release, etc. All of these parts in ordinary use experience wear as a result of that use. Like shoe laces or brake pads, they are replaceable and meant to be. Some like the slide stop, are mostly inexpensive to replace. Wear on the notch on the slide takes a good deal of time and use to make a difference and be noticed in normal operation.

Dropping the slide by releasing the slide stop is not abuse. It's normal operation.

It's also the case that the metal of these small parts is softer than the material of the slide so that they wear out first before the slide. Barrels will go before the slide. Mags generally wear out before the slide release. Or it's supposed to be.

Whichever method a person chooses to use predominately, it's useful to know the other methods. Dropping the slide by using the slide stop (with the thumb or forefinger) or by racking the slide against an object (shoe heel, fence post, etc.) are useful skills to know and practice.

When practicing shooting one handed, weak or strong hand, I also practice racking the slide one handed and dropping the slide one handed. If one hand is injured or carrying something the slingshot method is unavailable.

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Old September 12, 2018, 09:15 AM   #15
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I use the slide release... but that's me. I also shoot and carry a Kahr... which specifies in it's instruction that you must release the slide with the slide release... the slingshot will typically will jam the pistol. I've not found this to be absolutely true, but, in any event, I use the slide release.
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Old September 12, 2018, 09:29 AM   #16
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The reason I asked the guestion was for undo wear on parts . I'm a benchrest shooter and with reloading you can cause undo wear , when sizing a rifle case to zero headspace dimension can cause wear on locking bolt lugs . As a shooter you want to keep wear down as little as possible in your firearm , so by using the slide release lever even though you can and maybe designed to do so , is it less wear to use the slingshot method then lowering the lever by hand. Yes or No what do you think.
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Old September 12, 2018, 09:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briandg
Shane, it is correct that as a coil spring is compressed, the pressure needed increases, and the released energy is increased (maybe not exponentially) but at least on a curve.
Not exponentially, not even on a curve.

Springs, including coil springs, are rated is terms of force/energy per unit of length. The only exception is variable rate springs, which are available for the 1911 but far less common than fixed rate springs.

http://brlcad.org/design/drafting/M1911-A1_REDUX.pdf
Scroll through to page 12 of 59. Note the spring rate: 2.88 LB/INCH. That's a linear rate, not exponential.

Then notice the two reference lengths and strengths listed. At free length, the compressed energy is zero. Compressing to a length of 3.72" is a delta of 2.83". Multiply that by 2.88 and we get 8.1504 pounds. Right on the money. Compress it again, to 1.81 ", and there's a delta of 1.91". Multiply 1.91 times 2.88 and you get 5.5008.

5.5008 + 8.1504 = 13.6512. Again, right on the money. The specified rating at full compression is 13.55 +/- .60.

That's for the original M1911 recoil spring, which was actually a 14-pound (actually, 13.55-pound) spring rather than the more common 16-pound spring that's now considered to be "standard" for the full-size 1911. Using that 2.88 pounds per inch figure, if the additional slide travel from slingshotting the slide is 1/10th of an inch, then the additional energy generated is 1/10 x 2.88 = .288 pounds.
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Old September 12, 2018, 10:08 AM   #18
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For what it's worth, Browning's patent application for the M1911 referred to the part under discussion as the "slide-lock" or "slide-stop," not slide release.

https://forum.m1911.org/documents/Br...1911-02-14.pdf
Page 3, second column and page 5, first column.

That said, on page 5 (first column), Browning did say that the slide could be released by depressing the slide "stop" lever.
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Old September 12, 2018, 10:15 AM   #19
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Of course, if you insert the mag very firmly, basically ramming it home, that should be enough to release the slide stop and send the slide forward, which is how I train.
I disagree with the use of the word "should", in this case. "Should" implies that it is the proper function, the way it ought to work, every time, and the way the designer(s) intended it to be used. I don't believe "should" is the proper word for closing the slide by ramming the magazine home.

It CAN happen, but I don't think its something to be counted on.

As far as releasing the slide with the slide stop vs. slingshotting, your choice, I suppose. The discussion = can of worms with open other end printed on each end )

Wear on the parts from using them the way they were intended? Yep, it happens, happens to all moving parts, in everything. It's a fact of life. However, undue wear is a different matter. The real question is, "is it going to matter?"

If you put 80,000 rounds through the gun, it might, but I think other things are going to matter more, and first.

I don't know about the new guns, don't have any idea of their durability, especially if made by ACME or some other maker, but I know the GI 1911A1a the Army used. I used to work on them, in the mid-late 70s. The newest of them was at least 30 years old. Got any idea how many I saw that needed to have the slide or slide stop replaced due to wear?

None. Not one. Ever.

And this included a few guns that were actually 1911s, NOT 1911A1s, and still in service!

OK, the GI guns don't get shot a lot (especially between wars) but they do get handled a lot. And they do get closed A LOT using the slide stop. Indeed, I'd say they get closed most often using the slide stop, and very often on an empty magazine (where using the slingshot method WILL NOT WORK).

Considering this, the fact that the GI guns never seemed to need repair to the mating surfaces of the slide and slide stop, I'd say its not an issue to be very concerned with on your personal pistol. Feel free to disagree.

I use the slide stop on 1911 pattern guns, my Dad's Colt Govt Model has Micro sights for match work, and slingshotting that slide in a hurry can lead to cut hands from the sight's sharp edges. (ok, its a match gun)

On the other hand, I sling shot the slides of my Desert Eagles, every time. It's simply nearly impossible for me to release them using the slide stop. Different guns mean differences in the way you work them.
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Old September 12, 2018, 10:19 AM   #20
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In the real world, it doesn't matter which method you use.
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Old September 12, 2018, 10:20 AM   #21
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What's best is what you are accustomed to. You mentioned 1911, but do you own other types of semi-auto as well? If so, are the slide stops all in the same location? Chances are the slide is always on top of the frame ...

Most shooters in competition use the slide stop as a slide release, even adding slide stops with elongated paddles to facilitate this. When I entered competitions, I did it as practice for the event I hoped I would never encounter. I always release the slide by the slingshot method, because I'm fairly certain that under stress I won't slip up and miss the entire slide.
That's where I am, too.
I'm sure I put more rounds downrange through 1911s than all other guns combined, and I have practiced different techniques to release the slide with the slide release, but I shoot some other guns - Hi-Power, P938 - and have just decided to go with the universal technique of racking the slide whenever I want a round in the chamber, or out of the chamber.

If a 1911 slide drops because the mag is slammed home, there's something wrong with the gun. That's business-as-usual for a Glock, but the slide should stay locked open on a 1911.
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Old September 12, 2018, 10:44 AM   #22
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If a 1911 slide drops because the mag is slammed home, there's something wrong with the gun.
I just reread that post... ^^^ +1 for a 1911.

OP, all metal parts wear, so I guess the answer to your basic question is 'Yes, slingshotting the slide will reduce wear on the slide stop.' The slide stop is a wear part, just like pretty much everything else in the pistol that is mated metal-to-metal; I suppose the only difference is you don't lube the slide stop, but the bearing surface is quite small, and, in any event, it's a $50 part. I think you are splitting hairs about wear on a minor component, it's likely the wear to the slide stop pin pivoting the barrel link will see more wear than the slide stop mating surface.

I have a forum friend (on another forum,) he has a Kimber 1911 he carried as a service pistol and has a claimed 80,000 rounds through it; if memory serves, he has not replaced any parts on it besides grip panels.
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Old September 12, 2018, 11:43 AM   #23
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The reason I asked the guestion was for undo wear on parts . I'm a benchrest shooter and with reloading you can cause undo wear , when sizing a rifle case to zero headspace dimension can cause wear on locking bolt lugs . As a shooter you want to keep wear down as little as possible in your firearm , so by using the slide release lever even though you can and maybe designed to do so , is it less wear to use the slingshot method then lowering the lever by hand. Yes or No what do you think.
The question of "undue wear" was addressed by 44amp. It is not undue wear.

The slide stop on a 1911 has a convenient ridge built on it for the thumb or finger to be placed to release it. This can be used to both drop the slide or to dis-assemble the pistol. It was originally checkered but it more often serrated these days. It's meant to be used and often.

If we were to track two (or 100) identical 1911s which were only either slingshot or released by the slide stop through 40,000 rounds what would we see? I don't know and does it matter? No, it don't matter, because how the shooter used the gun would likely have a greater impact than how they released the slide.

A benchrest rifle shooter knows that their weapon is a special purpose built firearm. It is neither a military rifle or a hunting rifle. Not so the general purpose 1911, which was designed as a service sidearm. We know the 1911 platform can also be built to be an outstanding precision handgun for competitive target work. In the latter case with these guns I would use special handling and not just with the slide stop.

I'll just say about your example with the benchrest rifle and zero headspace. No one on any rifle should use, more accurately aim for "zero headspace". I understand what you're saying but in no rifle, benchrest or rattler, should one aim for that. Benchrest rifles have a much shorter active life before barrel change than any 1911. Depending on caliber of course.

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Old September 12, 2018, 02:16 PM   #24
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Releasing the slide stop lever by lowering the lever with the thumb is how the thing was designed to be used. However, sling shotting the slide or using the slide release won't make a lick of difference to anything.
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Old September 12, 2018, 06:28 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by RickB View Post
If a 1911 slide drops because the mag is slammed home, there's something wrong with the gun.
Not to argue, but every 1911 I've ever owned has functioned that way. For that matter, it's worked consistently with my S&W 4003, SIG P229, Beretta PX4, Glock 19, as well as several others. In fact, the only full-size semi-auto I own that it doesn't work with is my S&W M&P9 2.0. To be clear, I am referring to using a fully loaded magazine, not an empty one.

Of course, I've only owned about a dozen 1911s, and a little more than a dozen other semis, so we're not talking a large sample size.

But according to your statement, every semi-auto I've ever owned has been defective, which just from a probability standpoint, is highly unlikely. I'm probably more likely to have been hit by lightning.
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