Rapp 1911 .45 Slide

rick35ovi · December 2, 2012, 10:55 PM

I have been handed a .45 slide i am trying to figure out, and i can't find hardly any info on it. look at the pics and let me know what you guys think and who made it.. it looks like it has german eagle proofmarks on one side of it..

mapsjanhere · December 3, 2012, 01:39 PM

The marks don't look German, and don't follow German marking rules. Can you show a picture of the whole slide, with a ruler to get dimensions?

**Mike Irwin** · December 3, 2012, 02:06 PM

Those aren't Nazi eagles...

The ONLY thing that comes to mind is that the eagles look like German-style proof marks...

The ONLY Rapp that I can come up with is Rapp Motorenwerke, which after WW I changed its name to BMW.

The Rapp logo is sort of partially maybe similar...

James K · December 3, 2012, 06:28 PM

First, 1005 is the Federal Supply Group (FSG) for ordnance materiel. Federal Stock Number 1005-550-8697 (National Stock Number 1005-00-550-8697) is the slide of a M1911A1 pistol. (Bet you knew that!)

So the indication is that it is a replacement slide made under contract to the U.S. or maybe an allied country. I tried to follow up on RAPP/Rapp and came up with a bunch of names; I checked out some, but they don't link to a particular product the company made, only to a CAGE code, so I gave up on that route.

Jim

**Mike Irwin** · December 3, 2012, 06:34 PM

No I didn't know that.

Very interesting.

mapsjanhere · December 3, 2012, 06:52 PM

Well, this narrows it down a lot, as the 11 digit FSN system was in use only from 1949 - 1975. That eliminates all eastern block countries in addition to now sure not being German (should have an eagle over N proof), nor Austrian (should have a NPv next to the eagle).

James K · December 3, 2012, 10:04 PM

I don't know the new German proof laws that well (though they probably have not changed much) but in general proof houses do not prove parts. How would a slide fire a proof load? That is why percussion guns sold as parts kits are not proved.

If Rick35ovi can find a CAGE code on the slide (a five character alphameric like 3M256 or 72AX2 (I made those up), we could trace the maker.

Jim

Jim Watson · December 3, 2012, 10:53 PM

The grooves in the spring tunnel are not seen on US slides. Or Israeli.

rick35ovi · December 4, 2012, 07:54 AM

Thanks for all the replies so far.. if anyone needs another pic let me know. the only numbers i have found on it are the ones in the pic.I tried to post another pic but i am here at work and it is not responding.. the slide is 7 and 3/4" inches long if that helps any..

mapsjanhere · December 4, 2012, 09:57 AM

James, unlike the US that only recognized the receiver as "the gun", German gun law considers frame, slide and barrel equally "essential gun parts" (each of which can get you napped for illegal possession for example). As such, they all get the eagle stamp as part of the process. The actual overpressure proof mark is the mark of the proof house and date.

SDC · December 4, 2012, 10:33 AM

Can you get a clearer picture of the "horse's head" logo? It's possible that the lettering isn't "RAPP", but something else; you might be able to get a clearer visual if you laid a piece of paper over the mark, then lightly rub it with a pencil, or even used a white grease pencil to fill in the grooves.

December 3, 2012, 01:39 PM	#2
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	The marks don't look German, and don't follow German marking rules. Can you show a picture of the whole slide, with a ruler to get dimensions? __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

December 3, 2012, 02:06 PM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Those aren't Nazi eagles... The ONLY thing that comes to mind is that the eagles look like German-style proof marks... The ONLY Rapp that I can come up with is Rapp Motorenwerke, which after WW I changed its name to BMW. The Rapp logo is sort of partially maybe similar... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 3, 2012, 06:34 PM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	No I didn't know that. Very interesting. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 3, 2012, 06:52 PM	#6
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Well, this narrows it down a lot, as the 11 digit FSN system was in use only from 1949 - 1975. That eliminates all eastern block countries in addition to now sure not being German (should have an eagle over N proof), nor Austrian (should have a NPv next to the eagle). __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

December 4, 2012, 07:54 AM	#9
rick35ovi Member Join Date: February 24, 2006 Location: wilds of Ohio Posts: 30	Slide picture Thanks for all the replies so far.. if anyone needs another pic let me know. the only numbers i have found on it are the ones in the pic.I tried to post another pic but i am here at work and it is not responding.. the slide is 7 and 3/4" inches long if that helps any..

December 3, 2012, 06:28 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	First, 1005 is the Federal Supply Group (FSG) for ordnance materiel. Federal Stock Number 1005-550-8697 (National Stock Number 1005-00-550-8697) is the slide of a M1911A1 pistol. (Bet you knew that!) So the indication is that it is a replacement slide made under contract to the U.S. or maybe an allied country. I tried to follow up on RAPP/Rapp and came up with a bunch of names; I checked out some, but they don't link to a particular product the company made, only to a CAGE code, so I gave up on that route. Jim

December 3, 2012, 10:04 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I don't know the new German proof laws that well (though they probably have not changed much) but in general proof houses do not prove parts. How would a slide fire a proof load? That is why percussion guns sold as parts kits are not proved. If Rick35ovi can find a CAGE code on the slide (a five character alphameric like 3M256 or 72AX2 (I made those up), we could trace the maker. Jim

December 3, 2012, 10:53 PM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	The grooves in the spring tunnel are not seen on US slides. Or Israeli.

December 4, 2012, 09:57 AM	#10
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	James, unlike the US that only recognized the receiver as "the gun", German gun law considers frame, slide and barrel equally "essential gun parts" (each of which can get you napped for illegal possession for example). As such, they all get the eagle stamp as part of the process. The actual overpressure proof mark is the mark of the proof house and date. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

December 4, 2012, 10:33 AM	#11
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	Can you get a clearer picture of the "horse's head" logo? It's possible that the lettering isn't "RAPP", but something else; you might be able to get a clearer visual if you laid a piece of paper over the mark, then lightly rub it with a pencil, or even used a white grease pencil to fill in the grooves. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.