Identify "1010" and "1040" gunpowders please

[Migs]

Friends

I have a reloading powder in a jug named "1010" and another named "1040" Do you all recognize the powder?
(Yes, I know all the caveats, but better to have an idea of what it could be)

Thank you all! - Migs

[Dufus]

Those are powders that had the Norma brand on them.

[Migs]

Awesome! Thank you very much - Miguel

[Migs]

Friends

Does anyone have reloading data on the Norma 1040 Powder? Can't find it anywhere. Must be a few years old.

Thanks

Migs

[44 AMP]

If it is not in the factory container with the ORIGINAL factory label on it, then its easy to identify. It's lawn fertilizer!

period.


Sure, it's your gun, and your butt (ok, more likely hands and eyes), but if its not in the SEALED original factory cannister, you don't know what it is for certain.

There are powders that look virtually identical to the eye that have much different burning pressure characteristics.

I wouldn't risk it, and recommend you don't, either.

[T. O'Heir]

The 1040 doesn't appear anywhere. The 1010 was a hand gun powder circa 1970. It was listed in the Speer Manual #9 published in 1974. That's 44 years for them that's counting. snicker.
There's a "Powder Profile" dating from 1970, here. Way down on page 54.
https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazi...l28partial.pdf
Unless you know for absolute certain how that powder has been stored for that long, I'd pitch it.
The Norma data .pdf posted by Wireman134 still works.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ma-1010-Powder

[Migs]

Yes, you are right on the "fertilizer advice" - I will dump that powder. Fortunately, knowing myself, I would not have used it anyways.

[Unclenick]

A ball powder 40 years old is suspect in any event. The military will only stockpile it 25 years. The Navy demonstrated it can age such that the deterrent coatings are deteriorated faster than the rest of the powder, giving it a faster burn rate. So, yeah, fertilizer.

[RC20]

I would assess the condition of it.

Also where you live (Arizona, Florida - Texas?) then probably gone

I have powder from the very early 70s that is good. Kept cool, shoots great.

I defer to Unclenick on ball powders.

[44 AMP]

I have powder from the very early 70s that is good. Kept cool, shoots great.

Some powder keeps better than others. Back in the 70s I remember reading an article in one of the "digests" the title was "4895 A Quarter Century later" (or something close to that)

At the end of WWII, the author bought 100lbs of 4895 surplus. 4 25lb kegs. He used up three of them in the next few years, but didn't open the last one, and life got in his way. 25 years later, he "discovered" the las keg, stored all this time in his family's Pennsylvania barn. So, he broke it open and began testing. The powder had not deteriorated in any physically noticeable way, the only change was equal weights delivered 50-75fps less velocity than current powder off the shelf.

A ball powder 40 years old is suspect in any event. The military will only stockpile it 25 years. The Navy demonstrated it can age such that the deterrent coatings are deteriorated faster than the rest of the powder, giving it a faster burn rate.

I was unaware of the military shelf life of ball powder, but it does make sense. I suppose the Navy keeps a pretty good eye on this kind of thing today, not wanting to repeat past embarrassment. When we got into WWII, the Navy was apparently surprised that the gunpowder reserve for their battleship guns, which had been stored in barges on the Potomac for 20+ years wasn't quite the same as when they put it in storage.

But, in this case, the issue isn't if the powder is still good, the issue is WHAT IS IT???

and there's no way to know, for certain.

When you are working with a material where "not quite enough", "just right", "hmm a little too much", and "KA BOOM!!!" will all fit in the same case, not knowing or even having a reasonable idea what you are dealing with is dangerous.

[T. O'Heir]

The best .303 Brit Ball I've ever fired was 44 years old at the time. 1944 vintage DA ammo issued to us by the CF. It's about how stuff is stored, not its age.

[44 AMP]

It's about how stuff is stored, not its age.

How its stored is major but how its made plays a part, as well. The fewer the chemical compounds used the more stable the powder is, over time, generally.

"Striaght" black powder lasts almost indefinitely, under proper storage conditions. Single base smokeless powders (nitrocellulose) can last a century or can begin breaking down in a few short decades, even in perfect storage conditions, depending on the exact conditions and care used when making the powder. Double base powders can begin breaking down even sooner.

CAN.

Does not mean will, or will happen everytime, or every batch will last the same amount of years.

Wartime production powder is always suspect for not lasting but that may be the result of the fact that wartime production ammo may not have been in proper storage since the end of the war...

1944 .303 Brit ammo was probably loaded with cordite, which is a bit different from the cannister powder used by handloaders today.

[Mike Irwin]

1944 DA would have been loaded by Dominion in Canada.

At that time I believe that Dominion was using American-made nitro powders, but I'm not 100% certain about that.