.308 or .223

3dsauces · March 26, 2014, 10:31 PM

For target / Field Class Centerfire, What is the more effective / accurate round?
.223 and .308 are the 2 I’m looking at, other less common rounds in aussie are twice the price here, so It’s really these 2. (unless I can reload them cheap)

Ranges will be from 100 yards to 300 yards. (Probably 500+ but that’ll be for fun and can be neglected)

This will be standing, kneeling and prone, probably never bench.
Weight isn’t a problem, recoil (might be??)
I was hoping to keep it under $2000 Aussie, That’s about the Starting line for the steyr rifles. (Those pro varmint things)

one more thing, Only target will ever be paper, and could advice be given about twist rates? Is it a high twist rate (e.g. 1:9) for short ranged ammunition and 1:16 for long? Or the other way around?

Thanks.

jersurf101 · March 26, 2014, 10:43 PM

I would go .223 rem for punching paper out to 600 yards with a bolt gun. Maybe a little further if the rifle can shoot heavy bullets.

A 1/7 or 1/9 twist rifle should shoot longer (heavier) projectiles better than a 1/12 twist rifle.

trg42wraglefragle · March 26, 2014, 11:06 PM

There are a few Ozzy second hand gun sites (can't remember their names), which last time I looked were swarming with Tikka T3 Varmints and Super Varmints. I'd get one of these in 223. If you can pick up a second hand rifle with only a small amount of use, I would definitely go that route. Unless some one has been rough as guts with their rifle, which should be obvious, you won't have any trouble and save a heap of money. Might even get some load data with it to save you the hassle and money.

223 will suit your needs perfectly, it is easily a good 300-400 yard cartridge, but many people shoot it out to 500 or 600 yards no problems. For paper punching the added cost and recoil of a 308 will just be wasted.

I don't know exactly what ammo prices are like in OZ, but in NZ they are pretty crazy and it'll be well worth your while to reload. You can reload match grade ammo for much cheaper as well as get a load that shoots the best it can in your rifle. If you don't want to reload then 223 will definitely be your best bet, and if you can get Hornady training ammo, I'd give that a go as it shoots great in my Tikka.

The Tikkas have a 1:8 twist which is probably the best all round twist for 223. They can shoot the 53gr Hornady Vmax's which are the best choice for light weight bullets, and should be able to handle up too 80gr bullets. 1:9 would be my next choice but some people struggle to stabilize anything over 70gr.

I don't know much about Steyr rifles, but I would highly recommend a heavy barrel Tikka or if you aren't keen on them the a heavy barrel Remington something.

3dsauces · March 26, 2014, 11:23 PM

Match grade .223 and .308 is about $2 / $2.50 odd here, can reload that for about 90 cents, maybe less.
I’ll be up against other .308s, so will they have a benefit at 100 or 300 yards? Or will the heavier bullet lessen accuracy at short ranges?

Arizona Fusilier · March 26, 2014, 11:54 PM

I'm inclined to think .223 would be more than adequate for your purposes. .308 would be overkill and more expensive given your limited parameters,

PHEASANTPETE · March 27, 2014, 12:07 AM

I thought the libtards collected most of the rifles over there about a decade ago. Let us know how that battle is going. The 223 is cheap, accurate and low recoiling. If you ever want to hunt the 308 is more versatile but has much more recoil. Why not get both if that is still affordable and possible over there.

By the way how are the sheep there? Oh I meant that for the guy from New Zealand. I heard something in Iraq about them from the Brits. They said every good Kiwi has a pair of velcro gloves, wellies and a favorite cliff.

Well whatever floats their boat mate. Cheers to the Kiwis!

trg42wraglefragle · March 27, 2014, 01:09 AM

No wellies here mate, thats POME speak. I'm more from a cow area, so velcro gloves not as handy.

We pay roughly $2 a round for good 223 ammo here, but that training ammo can be had from .70 to $1 a round, both the brass and steel case shoot equally as well from my Tikka and get 100 yard groups around the .5moa mark or less. Shot a group at 175 yards that was still under an inch with this ammo, but haven't tried to take it out any further.

I'd still pick 223 against the 308s, at that range with the right bullet in 223 you will easily keep up. You could quite easily keep up with them out to 600 yards with heavier bullets, and even further with a 75 or 80gr Amax.

The heavier and lighter bullets are no more or less accurate at a particular range. The lighter ones will tend to have a flatter flight path, for the first 300 yards or so, but the heavier (more specifically higher BC bullets) will retain their velocity and energy better at longer range, and will move around less in the wind. If you are really keen start research up Ballistic Coefficient's, and how a 80gr bullet from a 223 can have less effect from wind than a 150gr 308 bullet.

For mainly up to 300 yards, the 223 will be perfect, it's an extremely popular varmint round, and if folks who shoot rabbits and crows out to 300 yards can try it, then it will work a treat for you.

trg42wraglefragle · March 27, 2014, 01:25 AM

Heres a rifle for you.

https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=33129

Theres a few Ozzy gun forums out there which could be good to join. Might find more relevant information and some local shooters who could give you tips and get you into reloading.

You don't live in Kunnunarra do you?

PHEASANTPETE · March 27, 2014, 02:30 AM

He did not say anything about cows. We have plenty around here and some on four hoofs as well.

Mobuck · March 27, 2014, 07:44 PM

For just paper, the 223 is so much fun it's addictive. I love shooting 223 simply due to the low recoil and ease/economy of loading. For those times when it simply "must be hit" I usually turn to the .308 if I can take time to make range adjustments. The 308 is better in the wind and delivers significantly more energy on flesh and bone targets but at the expense of higher per round cost and recoil.

March 26, 2014, 10:31 PM	#1
3dsauces Junior Member Join Date: March 9, 2014 Posts: 14	.308 or .223 For target / Field Class Centerfire, What is the more effective / accurate round? .223 and .308 are the 2 I’m looking at, other less common rounds in aussie are twice the price here, so It’s really these 2. (unless I can reload them cheap) Ranges will be from 100 yards to 300 yards. (Probably 500+ but that’ll be for fun and can be neglected) This will be standing, kneeling and prone, probably never bench. Weight isn’t a problem, recoil (might be??) I was hoping to keep it under $2000 Aussie, That’s about the Starting line for the steyr rifles. (Those pro varmint things) one more thing, Only target will ever be paper, and could advice be given about twist rates? Is it a high twist rate (e.g. 1:9) for short ranged ammunition and 1:16 for long? Or the other way around? Thanks.

March 27, 2014, 12:07 AM	#6
PHEASANTPETE Member Join Date: January 4, 2011 Posts: 46	Aussie's still can have Rifles? I thought the libtards collected most of the rifles over there about a decade ago. Let us know how that battle is going. The 223 is cheap, accurate and low recoiling. If you ever want to hunt the 308 is more versatile but has much more recoil. Why not get both if that is still affordable and possible over there. By the way how are the sheep there? Oh I meant that for the guy from New Zealand. I heard something in Iraq about them from the Brits. They said every good Kiwi has a pair of velcro gloves, wellies and a favorite cliff. Well whatever floats their boat mate. Cheers to the Kiwis! Last edited by PHEASANTPETE; March 27, 2014 at 02:27 AM.

March 27, 2014, 02:30 AM	#9
PHEASANTPETE Member Join Date: January 4, 2011 Posts: 46	POME speak He He He did not say anything about cows. We have plenty around here and some on four hoofs as well.

March 26, 2014, 10:43 PM	#2
jersurf101 Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 553	I would go .223 rem for punching paper out to 600 yards with a bolt gun. Maybe a little further if the rifle can shoot heavy bullets. A 1/7 or 1/9 twist rifle should shoot longer (heavier) projectiles better than a 1/12 twist rifle.

March 26, 2014, 11:06 PM	#3
trg42wraglefragle Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 856	There are a few Ozzy second hand gun sites (can't remember their names), which last time I looked were swarming with Tikka T3 Varmints and Super Varmints. I'd get one of these in 223. If you can pick up a second hand rifle with only a small amount of use, I would definitely go that route. Unless some one has been rough as guts with their rifle, which should be obvious, you won't have any trouble and save a heap of money. Might even get some load data with it to save you the hassle and money. 223 will suit your needs perfectly, it is easily a good 300-400 yard cartridge, but many people shoot it out to 500 or 600 yards no problems. For paper punching the added cost and recoil of a 308 will just be wasted. I don't know exactly what ammo prices are like in OZ, but in NZ they are pretty crazy and it'll be well worth your while to reload. You can reload match grade ammo for much cheaper as well as get a load that shoots the best it can in your rifle. If you don't want to reload then 223 will definitely be your best bet, and if you can get Hornady training ammo, I'd give that a go as it shoots great in my Tikka. The Tikkas have a 1:8 twist which is probably the best all round twist for 223. They can shoot the 53gr Hornady Vmax's which are the best choice for light weight bullets, and should be able to handle up too 80gr bullets. 1:9 would be my next choice but some people struggle to stabilize anything over 70gr. I don't know much about Steyr rifles, but I would highly recommend a heavy barrel Tikka or if you aren't keen on them the a heavy barrel Remington something.

March 26, 2014, 11:23 PM	#4
3dsauces Junior Member Join Date: March 9, 2014 Posts: 14	Match grade .223 and .308 is about $2 / $2.50 odd here, can reload that for about 90 cents, maybe less. I’ll be up against other .308s, so will they have a benefit at 100 or 300 yards? Or will the heavier bullet lessen accuracy at short ranges?

March 26, 2014, 11:54 PM	#5
Arizona Fusilier Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2000 Posts: 1,082	I'm inclined to think .223 would be more than adequate for your purposes. .308 would be overkill and more expensive given your limited parameters,

March 27, 2014, 01:09 AM	#7
trg42wraglefragle Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 856	No wellies here mate, thats POME speak. I'm more from a cow area, so velcro gloves not as handy. We pay roughly $2 a round for good 223 ammo here, but that training ammo can be had from .70 to $1 a round, both the brass and steel case shoot equally as well from my Tikka and get 100 yard groups around the .5moa mark or less. Shot a group at 175 yards that was still under an inch with this ammo, but haven't tried to take it out any further. I'd still pick 223 against the 308s, at that range with the right bullet in 223 you will easily keep up. You could quite easily keep up with them out to 600 yards with heavier bullets, and even further with a 75 or 80gr Amax. The heavier and lighter bullets are no more or less accurate at a particular range. The lighter ones will tend to have a flatter flight path, for the first 300 yards or so, but the heavier (more specifically higher BC bullets) will retain their velocity and energy better at longer range, and will move around less in the wind. If you are really keen start research up Ballistic Coefficient's, and how a 80gr bullet from a 223 can have less effect from wind than a 150gr 308 bullet. For mainly up to 300 yards, the 223 will be perfect, it's an extremely popular varmint round, and if folks who shoot rabbits and crows out to 300 yards can try it, then it will work a treat for you.

March 27, 2014, 01:25 AM	#8
trg42wraglefragle Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 856	Heres a rifle for you. https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=33129 Theres a few Ozzy gun forums out there which could be good to join. Might find more relevant information and some local shooters who could give you tips and get you into reloading. You don't live in Kunnunarra do you?

March 27, 2014, 07:44 PM	#10
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	For just paper, the 223 is so much fun it's addictive. I love shooting 223 simply due to the low recoil and ease/economy of loading. For those times when it simply "must be hit" I usually turn to the .308 if I can take time to make range adjustments. The 308 is better in the wind and delivers significantly more energy on flesh and bone targets but at the expense of higher per round cost and recoil.