hornady 45 cal ftx, 200 grain bullets question

n8ball · December 22, 2013, 01:39 PM

so i bought some of these because they were the only ones cabelas had in stock and i wasnt paying attention.
they are .452 diameter, looks like the hornady manual uses them in the 45 long colt.
would it be unsafe to try these in a 45-70?
What would be a good starting load, if it is safe, using imr 4064, 4227, 3031,or rel7?

my brain says they wouldn't be accurate do to the smaller size, 45-70 using .458 diameter, but i thought they would be quick enough for proper expansion.

I am not new to hand loading but i don't feel like i should make this decision without asking folks with more knowledge and experience
My 45-70 is an h&r handy rifle, single shot

thank you!

arizona98tj · December 22, 2013, 05:51 PM

While I can imagine that putting a bullet that is .006" undersized down the barrel is better than using one that is .006" oversized, I personally wouldn't consider doing either one.

NoSecondBest · December 22, 2013, 06:52 PM

You need to get a reloading manual and read it. The 45LC and the 45-70 use two different diameter bullets. One is .452 and the other is .458. Asking for recipes off the internet is in itself a recipe for disaster.

n8ball · December 22, 2013, 08:38 PM

right, i have the necessary manuals and have read them front to back. I wouldn't use random load info without further research on my own. i am aware of the dangerous situation it would cause, more so just looking for input, and info that i can research.

i asked the question for someone with more knowledge to answer it. its sorta based off of what i learned about aks, verses the mini 30, in that, most imported aks have a .311 bore, where the mini 30 has a .308 bore, however the ak can be very accurate with a .308 bullet.

i guess i was wondering the parameters used to decide when smaller bullets are ok to use, or, if in fact ,they are never ok to use.

also, my post clearly states that i know that a 45 lc is a .452, and the 45-70 is a .458.
also i should point out that i am most humbly responding and i hope not to come across as arrogant.

so i will take the responces as its a bad idea and i will hold onto them until i have a 45 lc, i thought about trying them through the 1911, but that is .451, and hornday states that there isnt enough velocity out of the 45 acp for proper expansion.

NoSecondBest · December 22, 2013, 08:50 PM

There is too much difference in dia. to substitute the smaller bullet in the larger bore. You will get no accuracy at all. Even with a soft lead cast bullet you couldn't "bump" it up enough to fill the bore. I think your best bet is to sell the bullets you bought by mistake or trade them with someone. There's just too much wrong with what you'd like to do to make it work. I'm pretty sure someone would be willing to trade you some .458 bullets (cast or jacketed) for your 45lc bullets. Sorry if I came across badly but I'm seeing more and more people asking questions on different boards about loading and it seems like a lot of them either don't have the books to reference or just don't want to bother to look up the info. The problem with asking these questions on the internet is that there's always someone out there willing to give you some really BAD information and if you don't know any better and use it you could either hurt yourself, a bystander, or at best damage a perfectly good gun. See if you can trade them. Good luck.

If you're in a bind for bullets and can't find any, I could let some Oregon Trail Laser Cast go for what I paid for them plus postage. I have quite a few 350grain and 405grain .459 dia. PM me if you're interested.

n8ball · December 22, 2013, 09:12 PM

thank you very much, i'll look for a 45 lc owner,
.
i appreciate the offer on the cast bullets to, however i dont have a lot of experience loading cast bullets, i currently am sitting on a box of 500 45 cal swcs, 200 grain, but am hesitant to use them in the 1911 before i can gain more knowledge on how to use them, ie, when to use gas checks and so on, plus they are dirty. My dad loved cast bullets for some of his firearms, however, unfortunately he is no longer here to walk me through the process.

as always, i appreciate you're input!!

mattL46 · December 22, 2013, 10:57 PM

I also bought a box of 200 gn ftx. I will go on to say that those are actually for the 460 S&W. Unless you have a newer manual than I do ( Hornady 8th edition) that says other wise. The Ftx data for the 45 colt uses a 225gn ftx. I actually called hornady and they advised against loading them in my revolver. Although a lot of people on this forum said they would work. Im just saying this because I didn't want you to mistakenly advertise them as 45 Colt when by my manual they aren't.(again unless a newer manual says otherwise) Just a friendly tip. I also bought a box of 250 gn...for the 450 bushmaster...dangit! I'm no expert by any means but like others have said thats a scary difference in diameters...I would trade or sell them.

Powderman · December 22, 2013, 11:10 PM

While the differences in 7.62x39 bore diameters are well known to most reloaders, the differences in .45 Colt and .45-70 have been standardized over the years.

You can load these in your .45-70--but your accuracy will probably not be the best. As has ben posted, they are undersized for the bore.

Now, .45 Colt--at least the newer ones--have been standardized at a bore diameter of .452.

When considering these for loading, there are a couple of questions to ask: Does the bullet have a cannelure or crimping groove? If so, will seating these bullets to the cannelure leave enough clearance for the cylinder to rotate?

Also, consider the type of firearm, and the application for your bullet. The Hornady bullet is indeed intended for hunting--and loading them in a .45 Colt with normal load data will not push the bullet to achieve its full potential--unless you have a Ruger revolver such as a Super Redhawk, Redhawk, or an OLD model Vaquero. Some load manuals carry different data sections for "regular" .45 Colt, and other data clearly marked for Rugers and/or Colt Anaconda revolvers only.

For the .45 Colt, if you're looking for a fun, sweet shooting load, I recommend a 200 grain lead round nose flat point (LRN-FP) on 5.5 of Trail Boss. Give it a good firm crimp into the crimping groove. For target or other plinking, you can also consider the same charge under the 200 grain HG68 LSWC. I would load these with the shoulder of the bullet slightly below flush with a gentle roll over the shoulder. Or, if you have a taper crimp die, crimp to a case mouth loaded diameter of .468 to .470.

December 22, 2013, 01:39 PM	#1
n8ball Member Join Date: December 13, 2013 Location: stafford ct Posts: 39	hornady 45 cal ftx, 200 grain bullets question so i bought some of these because they were the only ones cabelas had in stock and i wasnt paying attention. they are .452 diameter, looks like the hornady manual uses them in the 45 long colt. would it be unsafe to try these in a 45-70? What would be a good starting load, if it is safe, using imr 4064, 4227, 3031,or rel7? my brain says they wouldn't be accurate do to the smaller size, 45-70 using .458 diameter, but i thought they would be quick enough for proper expansion. I am not new to hand loading but i don't feel like i should make this decision without asking folks with more knowledge and experience My 45-70 is an h&r handy rifle, single shot thank you!

December 22, 2013, 05:51 PM	#2
arizona98tj Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 980	While I can imagine that putting a bullet that is .006" undersized down the barrel is better than using one that is .006" oversized, I personally wouldn't consider doing either one. __________________ stu-offroad.com Largest Jeep TJ project site on the web! (now with guns)

December 22, 2013, 10:57 PM	#7
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	i did the same thing. I also bought a box of 200 gn ftx. I will go on to say that those are actually for the 460 S&W. Unless you have a newer manual than I do ( Hornady 8th edition) that says other wise. The Ftx data for the 45 colt uses a 225gn ftx. I actually called hornady and they advised against loading them in my revolver. Although a lot of people on this forum said they would work. Im just saying this because I didn't want you to mistakenly advertise them as 45 Colt when by my manual they aren't.(again unless a newer manual says otherwise) Just a friendly tip. I also bought a box of 250 gn...for the 450 bushmaster...dangit! I'm no expert by any means but like others have said thats a scary difference in diameters...I would trade or sell them.

December 22, 2013, 11:10 PM	#8
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	While the differences in 7.62x39 bore diameters are well known to most reloaders, the differences in .45 Colt and .45-70 have been standardized over the years. You can load these in your .45-70--but your accuracy will probably not be the best. As has ben posted, they are undersized for the bore. Now, .45 Colt--at least the newer ones--have been standardized at a bore diameter of .452. When considering these for loading, there are a couple of questions to ask: Does the bullet have a cannelure or crimping groove? If so, will seating these bullets to the cannelure leave enough clearance for the cylinder to rotate? Also, consider the type of firearm, and the application for your bullet. The Hornady bullet is indeed intended for hunting--and loading them in a .45 Colt with normal load data will not push the bullet to achieve its full potential--unless you have a Ruger revolver such as a Super Redhawk, Redhawk, or an OLD model Vaquero. Some load manuals carry different data sections for "regular" .45 Colt, and other data clearly marked for Rugers and/or Colt Anaconda revolvers only. For the .45 Colt, if you're looking for a fun, sweet shooting load, I recommend a 200 grain lead round nose flat point (LRN-FP) on 5.5 of Trail Boss. Give it a good firm crimp into the crimping groove. For target or other plinking, you can also consider the same charge under the 200 grain HG68 LSWC. I would load these with the shoulder of the bullet slightly below flush with a gentle roll over the shoulder. Or, if you have a taper crimp die, crimp to a case mouth loaded diameter of .468 to .470. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

December 22, 2013, 06:52 PM	#3
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	You need to get a reloading manual and read it. The 45LC and the 45-70 use two different diameter bullets. One is .452 and the other is .458. Asking for recipes off the internet is in itself a recipe for disaster.

December 22, 2013, 08:38 PM	#4
n8ball Member Join Date: December 13, 2013 Location: stafford ct Posts: 39	right, i have the necessary manuals and have read them front to back. I wouldn't use random load info without further research on my own. i am aware of the dangerous situation it would cause, more so just looking for input, and info that i can research. i asked the question for someone with more knowledge to answer it. its sorta based off of what i learned about aks, verses the mini 30, in that, most imported aks have a .311 bore, where the mini 30 has a .308 bore, however the ak can be very accurate with a .308 bullet. i guess i was wondering the parameters used to decide when smaller bullets are ok to use, or, if in fact ,they are never ok to use. also, my post clearly states that i know that a 45 lc is a .452, and the 45-70 is a .458. also i should point out that i am most humbly responding and i hope not to come across as arrogant. so i will take the responces as its a bad idea and i will hold onto them until i have a 45 lc, i thought about trying them through the 1911, but that is .451, and hornday states that there isnt enough velocity out of the 45 acp for proper expansion.

December 22, 2013, 08:50 PM	#5
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	There is too much difference in dia. to substitute the smaller bullet in the larger bore. You will get no accuracy at all. Even with a soft lead cast bullet you couldn't "bump" it up enough to fill the bore. I think your best bet is to sell the bullets you bought by mistake or trade them with someone. There's just too much wrong with what you'd like to do to make it work. I'm pretty sure someone would be willing to trade you some .458 bullets (cast or jacketed) for your 45lc bullets. Sorry if I came across badly but I'm seeing more and more people asking questions on different boards about loading and it seems like a lot of them either don't have the books to reference or just don't want to bother to look up the info. The problem with asking these questions on the internet is that there's always someone out there willing to give you some really BAD information and if you don't know any better and use it you could either hurt yourself, a bystander, or at best damage a perfectly good gun. See if you can trade them. Good luck. If you're in a bind for bullets and can't find any, I could let some Oregon Trail Laser Cast go for what I paid for them plus postage. I have quite a few 350grain and 405grain .459 dia. PM me if you're interested.

December 22, 2013, 09:12 PM	#6
n8ball Member Join Date: December 13, 2013 Location: stafford ct Posts: 39	thank you very much, i'll look for a 45 lc owner, . i appreciate the offer on the cast bullets to, however i dont have a lot of experience loading cast bullets, i currently am sitting on a box of 500 45 cal swcs, 200 grain, but am hesitant to use them in the 1911 before i can gain more knowledge on how to use them, ie, when to use gas checks and so on, plus they are dirty. My dad loved cast bullets for some of his firearms, however, unfortunately he is no longer here to walk me through the process. as always, i appreciate you're input!!