Burn rate and Semi-shotgun performance

Valornor · October 22, 2013, 11:34 PM

This has been a question I've been curious about for some time. When loading for my M1A I've got to make sure the powders I use fall with in a certain window of burn rates. To slow of a powder will bend the op rod as the pressures will be too high at the gas port. Too quick of a powder and the weapon may not cycle as the pressure is the inverse of the slow powder. With the great component shortage of 2013 it's forced me to try many different powders that I wouldn't have normally tried when loading for that rifle. That has been fun in a good way, but it's a story for another time.

I am curious if there is anything similar to be concerned about with a semi auto shotgun. I'm currently loading shot shells for my Benelli M4. It's a piston driven gas system. I don't want to inadvertently over pressure the gas system with a load using unique powder or a similar quick burning powder or possibly have a short stroke with a powder that is too slow burning.

Is this something I should be concerned about or does it not apply as much in the shotgun world?

myfriendis410 · October 23, 2013, 09:41 AM

It doesn't apply as much in the shotgun world. Assuming book loads you will be just fine.

jaguarxk120 · October 23, 2013, 10:08 AM

Today's modern shotguns have very advanced gas regulating systems for the many different loading sold.

The M1A and the M1 were designed around a single loading 30-06 or 308 and will function very well with that mil. spec. load.

The trouble comes up when shooters/handloader's use powder of different burn rates when loading for the two rifles.

Brian Pfleuger · October 23, 2013, 10:37 AM

Shotgun loading is a completely different world. The general principle is that you do not stray from published data in any way shape or form. You use identical components and you do not try to extrapolate data. As such, there really is no parallel of trying to find a proper load, aside from finding other published data.

BigJimP · October 23, 2013, 01:25 PM

When reloading shotshells for semi-autos....velocity of the load seems to be the key to reliable cycling...( in terms of a minimum to make the action cycle reliably ).....

Most of the gas operated semi-autos ....Benelli M-4 / Beretta semi-autos, etc.....seem to operate just fine if loads are in the 1200 fps area or faster...but even with the fastest powders available ...I've never heard of a load being too fast - causing any gun issues.../ and while there are a few powder, shot quantity combinations that will let you get a 12ga load up to between 1300 and 1400 fps.../ most of us in the shotshell reloading area - are focused on less shot ( to save money ) and keeping velocities down ( to reduce recoil ) because we shoot 300 or more shells a week.

In the Inertia operated semi-autos...like Benelli M-2 / Benelli Super Sport, etc....the manuals will recommend you not shoot loads slower than around 1250 fps.../ but my Benelli Super Sport will cycle just fine with any load that is at 1200 fps ( 7/8 oz, 1 oz, or 1 1/8 oz loads )....but I keep it clean and well lubed too.

I've fired some " OO " and some slug loads ....in M-4's ...(not my gun)...but they were all fine / the owner is a buddy - and the gun is not showing any signs of abuse from the heavy loads. Its a fun gun to shoot /nice gun ...and we ran a few hundred shells thru it, with "OO" Buck at around 1200 fps ...all of our reloads.../ and it cycled 100% - as well as with the commercial slug loads my buddy purchased.
-----------
Just a note - but make sure you have a press that is "resizing" the base on the spent hull ...to ensure reliable cycling in and out of the mag / shells that are not resized or have crimps that are "a little out of round" will often hang up in semi-autos.

All of the MEC presses - from the Grabber model - to the 9000 GN and 9000 HN all resize each hull...as you cycle it thru the press. Some of the older single stage presses do not necessarily resize...

Valornor · October 23, 2013, 01:34 PM

That puts that to rest for me. Thanks for all the responses.

Urban_Redneck · October 23, 2013, 02:58 PM

I've shot thousands of 12ga reloads through my Beretta 390, 700X and Clays always ran great.

Heed the advice about re-sizing, my Grabber feed like factory fresh, shells from my buddy's 600 will not chamber on their own.

YMMV

October 22, 2013, 11:34 PM	#1
Valornor Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2010 Location: Orem, Utah Posts: 244	Burn rate and Semi-shotgun performance This has been a question I've been curious about for some time. When loading for my M1A I've got to make sure the powders I use fall with in a certain window of burn rates. To slow of a powder will bend the op rod as the pressures will be too high at the gas port. Too quick of a powder and the weapon may not cycle as the pressure is the inverse of the slow powder. With the great component shortage of 2013 it's forced me to try many different powders that I wouldn't have normally tried when loading for that rifle. That has been fun in a good way, but it's a story for another time. I am curious if there is anything similar to be concerned about with a semi auto shotgun. I'm currently loading shot shells for my Benelli M4. It's a piston driven gas system. I don't want to inadvertently over pressure the gas system with a load using unique powder or a similar quick burning powder or possibly have a short stroke with a powder that is too slow burning. Is this something I should be concerned about or does it not apply as much in the shotgun world?

October 23, 2013, 10:37 AM	#4
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Shotgun loading is a completely different world. The general principle is that you do not stray from published data in any way shape or form. You use identical components and you do not try to extrapolate data. As such, there really is no parallel of trying to find a proper load, aside from finding other published data. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

October 23, 2013, 09:41 AM	#2
myfriendis410 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2011 Location: Lompoc California Posts: 274	It doesn't apply as much in the shotgun world. Assuming book loads you will be just fine.

October 23, 2013, 10:08 AM	#3
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	Today's modern shotguns have very advanced gas regulating systems for the many different loading sold. The M1A and the M1 were designed around a single loading 30-06 or 308 and will function very well with that mil. spec. load. The trouble comes up when shooters/handloader's use powder of different burn rates when loading for the two rifles.

October 23, 2013, 01:25 PM	#5
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	When reloading shotshells for semi-autos....velocity of the load seems to be the key to reliable cycling...( in terms of a minimum to make the action cycle reliably )..... Most of the gas operated semi-autos ....Benelli M-4 / Beretta semi-autos, etc.....seem to operate just fine if loads are in the 1200 fps area or faster...but even with the fastest powders available ...I've never heard of a load being too fast - causing any gun issues.../ and while there are a few powder, shot quantity combinations that will let you get a 12ga load up to between 1300 and 1400 fps.../ most of us in the shotshell reloading area - are focused on less shot ( to save money ) and keeping velocities down ( to reduce recoil ) because we shoot 300 or more shells a week. In the Inertia operated semi-autos...like Benelli M-2 / Benelli Super Sport, etc....the manuals will recommend you not shoot loads slower than around 1250 fps.../ but my Benelli Super Sport will cycle just fine with any load that is at 1200 fps ( 7/8 oz, 1 oz, or 1 1/8 oz loads )....but I keep it clean and well lubed too. I've fired some " OO " and some slug loads ....in M-4's ...(not my gun)...but they were all fine / the owner is a buddy - and the gun is not showing any signs of abuse from the heavy loads. Its a fun gun to shoot /nice gun ...and we ran a few hundred shells thru it, with "OO" Buck at around 1200 fps ...all of our reloads.../ and it cycled 100% - as well as with the commercial slug loads my buddy purchased. ----------- Just a note - but make sure you have a press that is "resizing" the base on the spent hull ...to ensure reliable cycling in and out of the mag / shells that are not resized or have crimps that are "a little out of round" will often hang up in semi-autos. All of the MEC presses - from the Grabber model - to the 9000 GN and 9000 HN all resize each hull...as you cycle it thru the press. Some of the older single stage presses do not necessarily resize...

October 23, 2013, 01:34 PM	#6
Valornor Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2010 Location: Orem, Utah Posts: 244	That puts that to rest for me. Thanks for all the responses.

October 23, 2013, 02:58 PM	#7
Urban_Redneck Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Posts: 73	I've shot thousands of 12ga reloads through my Beretta 390, 700X and Clays always ran great. Heed the advice about re-sizing, my Grabber feed like factory fresh, shells from my buddy's 600 will not chamber on their own. YMMV