A suspicious MP5 auction on gunbroker

Machineguntony · June 2, 2014, 11:44 PM

So this gun is currently up for auction. It is an MP5 Flemming sear gun. The buy now is $29,000. There is currently, as of this writing, a bid of $27,000, but reserve not met.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=419379477

Last week, this exact same gun was up for auction, but had NO RESERVE. The bid, last I saw, was much lower than the buy now. I am not sure of the exact winning bid, but for most of the auction the winning bid was much less than market value, around $20,000, and there seemed be be none of the usual movement on the bids. I am thinking that I am going to get a deal. On the final day, I start tracking the auction closely to start bidding, and lo and behold, I can't find the gun. I assumed someone just hit the buy now. Suspiciously, it reappears and now has a reserve price. Very suspiciously dishonest.

Willie Lowman · June 3, 2014, 12:22 AM

the auction was never listed as ended. The gun wasn't listed as sold? It was stopped by the owner of the gun and restarted with a reserve. Correcting a mistake isn't suspicious.

Double Naught Spy · June 3, 2014, 06:23 AM

Maybe the original buyer backed out?

Machineguntony · June 3, 2014, 08:10 AM

The original seller got cold feet. He listed it without a reserve to attract attention, then, when it didn't meet his price point, he probably ended it himself.

This seller sells many of his MGs without reserve, especially his MP5s. Go on GB and look at the MG auctions. The no reserve auctions always gets more bids and attention. The reserve auctions often time get no bids (ie, the Jackson Armory auctions).

It isn't like it was up for one day with no reserve, and then he caught his mistake. It was up for over a week with no reserve, almost until the end.

Thats dishonest.

Skans · June 3, 2014, 08:28 AM

Quote:

It was stopped by the owner of the gun and restarted with a reserve. Correcting a mistake isn't suspicious.

Suspicious? No.
Completely shady and unethical? Yes.

The bottom line - seller didn't like how this one turned out, so tucked tail and ran. I guess seller likes all the attention his no-reserve auctions get.....but when it doesn't work out in his favor, he has no qualms about changing the rules mid stream. Exactly the same as a high-bidding dead-beat-non-paying buyer. No difference.

JT-AR-MG42 · June 3, 2014, 09:33 AM

Did a quick search of completed auctions.
Showed that gun listed from the 15th thru the 29th - 14 day auction, with a reserve.
Ended with a 24,000 bid that did not meet the reserve.

Seems legit from what I can see.

I believe that a seller loses the ability to change the auction to a different format once there is a bid. Same for pulling an auction.

Usual solution to 'protect' your outcome on a no reserve auction is to simply have a friend/good customer register and bid, and of course, not buy the item.

Even a family member works.
GB knows this goes on.
When they see the address of the non paying bidder is in the same city as the seller, well, do the math.
Since their profit comes from the seller (especially the high volume seller) , they tolerate it. They will still get their cut when it sells.

That only costs the seller the two dollar registration fee for the non paying bidder.

We have all seen auctions re-listed due to a non-paying bidder.
Ever wonder why the seller doesn't give the name (or even the GB handle) of the non-paying so and so?
And when you check the recent feedback on both parties, there is no negative feedback on anyone?
Now you know.

JT

Machineguntony · June 3, 2014, 01:34 PM

I was watching this auction very closely. The old auction did not have a reserve. Something changed.

Anyways, I won't comment on this one any more. I was a little upset. It's his property, he can do whatever. Caveat Emptor.

Skans · June 3, 2014, 01:59 PM

Someone should start a blog devoted to exposing shiftless Gunbroker sellers who use shills; fail to complete deals because they don't get their price; or claim "it just sold in my store" after someone bid, but before the auction ends.

Double Naught Spy · June 3, 2014, 03:45 PM

And despite having thought it suspicious, you probably didn't report it to Gunbroker, huh?

gyvel · June 4, 2014, 05:43 AM

Quote:

The reserve auctions often time get no bids (ie, the Jackson Armory auctions).

LOL!! Jackson Armory. They need to change their motto to: "Another overpriced gun from Jackson Armory."

Skans · June 4, 2014, 08:04 AM

Don't pick on Jackson Armory! They take great photos of their treasured guns. I often use them when I'm conducting some firearms research. BID ON ONE???? Now we're talking "stupid rich".

Mike1234 · June 4, 2014, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Usual solution to 'protect' your outcome on a no reserve auction is to simply have a friend/good customer register and bid, and of course, not buy the item.

That's shill bidding and is bad form. It's also against site policy and, if they're caught, the seller can be banned.

GunBroker SHILL BIDDING POLICY

If a seller isn't willing to take what comes fairly and honestly... without backdoor manipulation... then they shouldn't have auctions with no reserves.

Machineguntony · June 4, 2014, 09:21 AM

I am pretty sure Jackson Armory just puts up their machine guns so that they can get attention and maybe a bit of free advertising, but that they really have no desire to sell their machine guns. I have never even seen a single bid on any of the Jackson Armory machine guns. I always crack up when I see their tag line, "Another Machine Gun from Jackson Armory". Makes me go LOL.

Skans · June 4, 2014, 09:32 AM

I have never seen a single bid on anything of Jackson Armory's. But, their pictures are good.

June 2, 2014, 11:44 PM	#1
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	A suspicious MP5 auction on gunbroker So this gun is currently up for auction. It is an MP5 Flemming sear gun. The buy now is $29,000. There is currently, as of this writing, a bid of $27,000, but reserve not met. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=419379477 Last week, this exact same gun was up for auction, but had NO RESERVE. The bid, last I saw, was much lower than the buy now. I am not sure of the exact winning bid, but for most of the auction the winning bid was much less than market value, around $20,000, and there seemed be be none of the usual movement on the bids. I am thinking that I am going to get a deal. On the final day, I start tracking the auction closely to start bidding, and lo and behold, I can't find the gun. I assumed someone just hit the buy now. Suspiciously, it reappears and now has a reserve price. Very suspiciously dishonest. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

June 3, 2014, 06:23 AM	#3
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Maybe the original buyer backed out? __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

June 3, 2014, 08:10 AM	#4
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	The original seller got cold feet. He listed it without a reserve to attract attention, then, when it didn't meet his price point, he probably ended it himself. This seller sells many of his MGs without reserve, especially his MP5s. Go on GB and look at the MG auctions. The no reserve auctions always gets more bids and attention. The reserve auctions often time get no bids (ie, the Jackson Armory auctions). It isn't like it was up for one day with no reserve, and then he caught his mistake. It was up for over a week with no reserve, almost until the end. Thats dishonest. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

June 3, 2014, 01:34 PM	#7
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	I was watching this auction very closely. The old auction did not have a reserve. Something changed. Anyways, I won't comment on this one any more. I was a little upset. It's his property, he can do whatever. Caveat Emptor. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

June 3, 2014, 03:45 PM	#9
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	And despite having thought it suspicious, you probably didn't report it to Gunbroker, huh? __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

June 3, 2014, 12:22 AM	#2
Willie Lowman Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2009 Location: Uh-Hi-O Posts: 3,006	the auction was never listed as ended. The gun wasn't listed as sold? It was stopped by the owner of the gun and restarted with a reserve. Correcting a mistake isn't suspicious.

June 3, 2014, 09:33 AM	#6
JT-AR-MG42 Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 555	Did a quick search of completed auctions. Showed that gun listed from the 15th thru the 29th - 14 day auction, with a reserve. Ended with a 24,000 bid that did not meet the reserve. Seems legit from what I can see. I believe that a seller loses the ability to change the auction to a different format once there is a bid. Same for pulling an auction. Usual solution to 'protect' your outcome on a no reserve auction is to simply have a friend/good customer register and bid, and of course, not buy the item. Even a family member works. GB knows this goes on. When they see the address of the non paying bidder is in the same city as the seller, well, do the math. Since their profit comes from the seller (especially the high volume seller) , they tolerate it. They will still get their cut when it sells. That only costs the seller the two dollar registration fee for the non paying bidder. We have all seen auctions re-listed due to a non-paying bidder. Ever wonder why the seller doesn't give the name (or even the GB handle) of the non-paying so and so? And when you check the recent feedback on both parties, there is no negative feedback on anyone? Now you know. JT

June 3, 2014, 01:59 PM	#8
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Someone should start a blog devoted to exposing shiftless Gunbroker sellers who use shills; fail to complete deals because they don't get their price; or claim "it just sold in my store" after someone bid, but before the auction ends.

June 4, 2014, 08:04 AM	#11
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Don't pick on Jackson Armory! They take great photos of their treasured guns. I often use them when I'm conducting some firearms research. BID ON ONE???? Now we're talking "stupid rich".

June 4, 2014, 09:21 AM	#13
Machineguntony Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2013 Posts: 1,277	I am pretty sure Jackson Armory just puts up their machine guns so that they can get attention and maybe a bit of free advertising, but that they really have no desire to sell their machine guns. I have never even seen a single bid on any of the Jackson Armory machine guns. I always crack up when I see their tag line, "Another Machine Gun from Jackson Armory". Makes me go LOL. __________________ Sent from Motorola DynaTac 8000x

June 4, 2014, 09:32 AM	#14
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I have never seen a single bid on anything of Jackson Armory's. But, their pictures are good.