Even with kevlar...

Full Metal Jacket · January 31, 2005, 09:19 PM

I was just wondering even if subject A was wearing kevlar body armor (say, equal to the amount the CA bank robbers had) how painful would it be to be hit with a .45ACP FMJ slug, or a 10mm/.357MAG FMJ slug? Would either be enough to break bones or knock the wind out of Subject A?

Slateman · January 31, 2005, 09:24 PM

I don't know about the pain involved with the vest, but those guys, I believe, were on PCP. They didn't feel anything.

seb5 · January 31, 2005, 10:00 PM

I work with a guy that took a .380 to the shoulder with a level IIA vest and he sustained some slight but permanent nerve damage to the area. He said it stung when he got hit.

**JohnKSa** · January 31, 2005, 10:12 PM

Seems like I worked out the math once and came up with a rough equivalence between the energy in a baseball bat swing and a handgun bullet impact.

I'm not going to defend this comparison rigorously, but it gives you an idea of what it will feel like, I think.

If you're really planning on getting shot (like maybe these guys were), you wear the trauma plates under the kevlar to distribute the force of the impact much more evenly and over a much wider area (read: hurts less). They are much less comfortable to wear but offer much better protection.

eka · January 31, 2005, 10:20 PM

Yes, it will hurt like hell. Most vests are reinforced in the area above the heart, because a hit in this area can result in fatal damage to the heart, even without penetrating. A hit in the vest also leaves incredible bruising, broken ribs, etc. It is designed to possibly keep you from dying, and thats all. Getting shot in the vest is not pretty.

Bob Freddy · January 31, 2005, 11:05 PM

I have seen first hand the post shot bruising. We are talking the nasty greenish bruises that stay for a month or longer. "Feels like getting hit with a bat" is a good way to describe it I guess because those are the exact words that came out of his mouth.

They shot the sidekick "[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]" live on the radio in Chicago. A 357 magnum from only 7 yards away. It actually knocked him down(he must way close to 350 or more). He said even years later the spot he got hit still isn't the same.

Bob

Erik · February 1, 2005, 11:35 AM

I have spoken to several officers over the years who were shot in their vests. Their discriptions ranged from feeling like being punched to wacked with a bat. All noted extensive bruising. Fortunately, none reported permanent damage.

woodland · February 1, 2005, 12:24 PM

It was a plain clothes cop, cowboy boots, blue jeans and a mullet. Serving a warrent, he went in gun drawn, and BG shot him. He crawled out the door, broke a mirror off the guys car so he could see down the hallway, and went right back in! I think the guy had shot himself. Don't remember for sure. They showed him taking off his vest after it was over, and it hit him right beside the right nipple. It hit almost exactly half on and half off the trauma plate. The bruise was awfull. Looked like a third nipple. And it had only been few minutes.

leadbutt · February 1, 2005, 04:33 PM

FMJ,, I have taken 2 rounds into a vest, and it hurts like hell!!!!!

One was at less then 4ft and it came out of a 8" bbled S&W, 357mag round was a 110grain super vel,,thank GOD.

I had a burse over the left pec about the size of a baseball, deep purple,and red, stayed with me for around a month and a half,hurt like hell and make liifting the arm a little sore,, vest was an early kevlar model type 2 from a cop shop.

2nd time it was a 9mm FMJ round 124 grain military black or blue tiped, caught it dead center on the chest,just a little to the right of center line, from about 30 yards, impact casued the zpfoid bone to crunch up a little and cracked the adjoining rib,, and again a nasty bruse,, never found the shooter or weapon on that one,, so don't know if it was handgun or rifle/carbine.

The guys in Cali, were jucied,, with what I don't know, reports where never clear,, they were arressted months before for drugs and guns, but a nut case JUdge gave back the guns..

You have to understand the vest isn't bullet PROOF, its bullet RESITANCED.

xfbi · February 10, 2005, 08:02 PM

the initial 14 layer vests were designed to stop a 22 long rifle which had the deepest penetration. we now have ceramic plates whihc will stop a rifle round absent the plate, the raound will only penetrate one haldf of the vest sadly you are inbetween the second half.

knightkrawler00 · February 10, 2005, 10:08 PM

A buddy of mine and I shot a level IIA vest with a 45ACP 200gr SWC loaded a little hot. The vest was draped over a sheet of 3/4" plywood. The bullet pushed the vest through the plywood, leaving a 2.5" hole in the sheet. That would have definately broke some bones if not much worse.

Springer45 · February 13, 2005, 09:28 AM

I've read that Kevlar vests are designed to deflect inward as much as 44mm in the process of stopping a bullet. That's 1.7 inches..."Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark."

January 31, 2005, 09:19 PM	#1
Full Metal Jacket Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2004 Posts: 260	Even with kevlar... I was just wondering even if subject A was wearing kevlar body armor (say, equal to the amount the CA bank robbers had) how painful would it be to be hit with a .45ACP FMJ slug, or a 10mm/.357MAG FMJ slug? Would either be enough to break bones or knock the wind out of Subject A?

January 31, 2005, 10:00 PM	#3
seb5 Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 477	I work with a guy that took a .380 to the shoulder with a level IIA vest and he sustained some slight but permanent nerve damage to the area. He said it stung when he got hit. __________________ Home is where you dig it

January 31, 2005, 10:20 PM	#5
eka Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2004 Posts: 235	Yes, it will hurt like hell. Most vests are reinforced in the area above the heart, because a hit in this area can result in fatal damage to the heart, even without penetrating. A hit in the vest also leaves incredible bruising, broken ribs, etc. It is designed to possibly keep you from dying, and thats all. Getting shot in the vest is not pretty. __________________ EKA Sic Semper Tyrannis

February 1, 2005, 11:35 AM	#7
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	I have spoken to several officers over the years who were shot in their vests. Their discriptions ranged from feeling like being punched to wacked with a bat. All noted extensive bruising. Fortunately, none reported permanent damage. __________________ Meriam Webster's: Main Entry: ci·vil·ian Pronunciation: \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\, Function: noun, Date: 14th century, 1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law, 2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider 1, — civilian adjective

February 1, 2005, 12:24 PM	#8
woodland Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2001 Location: western wa. Posts: 564	Saw one on "world's wildest police" show It was a plain clothes cop, cowboy boots, blue jeans and a mullet. Serving a warrent, he went in gun drawn, and BG shot him. He crawled out the door, broke a mirror off the guys car so he could see down the hallway, and went right back in! I think the guy had shot himself. Don't remember for sure. They showed him taking off his vest after it was over, and it hit him right beside the right nipple. It hit almost exactly half on and half off the trauma plate. The bruise was awfull. Looked like a third nipple. And it had only been few minutes. __________________ "There is no spoon..."

January 31, 2005, 09:24 PM	#2
Slateman Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2005 Location: Northern VA Posts: 323	I don't know about the pain involved with the vest, but those guys, I believe, were on PCP. They didn't feel anything.

January 31, 2005, 10:12 PM	#4
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,992	Seems like I worked out the math once and came up with a rough equivalence between the energy in a baseball bat swing and a handgun bullet impact. I'm not going to defend this comparison rigorously, but it gives you an idea of what it will feel like, I think. If you're really planning on getting shot (like maybe these guys were), you wear the trauma plates under the kevlar to distribute the force of the impact much more evenly and over a much wider area (read: hurts less). They are much less comfortable to wear but offer much better protection.

January 31, 2005, 11:05 PM	#6
Bob Freddy Member Join Date: June 26, 2004 Location: Far SS Chicago Posts: 84	I have seen first hand the post shot bruising. We are talking the nasty greenish bruises that stay for a month or longer. "Feels like getting hit with a bat" is a good way to describe it I guess because those are the exact words that came out of his mouth. They shot the sidekick "[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]" live on the radio in Chicago. A 357 magnum from only 7 yards away. It actually knocked him down(he must way close to 350 or more). He said even years later the spot he got hit still isn't the same. Bob

February 1, 2005, 04:33 PM	#9
leadbutt Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2002 Location: Tidewater,Virginia Posts: 289	FMJ,, I have taken 2 rounds into a vest, and it hurts like hell!!!!! One was at less then 4ft and it came out of a 8" bbled S&W, 357mag round was a 110grain super vel,,thank GOD. I had a burse over the left pec about the size of a baseball, deep purple,and red, stayed with me for around a month and a half,hurt like hell and make liifting the arm a little sore,, vest was an early kevlar model type 2 from a cop shop. 2nd time it was a 9mm FMJ round 124 grain military black or blue tiped, caught it dead center on the chest,just a little to the right of center line, from about 30 yards, impact casued the zpfoid bone to crunch up a little and cracked the adjoining rib,, and again a nasty bruse,, never found the shooter or weapon on that one,, so don't know if it was handgun or rifle/carbine. The guys in Cali, were jucied,, with what I don't know, reports where never clear,, they were arressted months before for drugs and guns, but a nut case JUdge gave back the guns.. You have to understand the vest isn't bullet PROOF, its bullet RESITANCED. __________________ "I am always willing to learn,but not always willing to be taught" Sir Winston Churchill

February 10, 2005, 08:02 PM	#10
xfbi Junior Member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Posts: 3	kevlar the initial 14 layer vests were designed to stop a 22 long rifle which had the deepest penetration. we now have ceramic plates whihc will stop a rifle round absent the plate, the raound will only penetrate one haldf of the vest sadly you are inbetween the second half.

February 10, 2005, 10:08 PM	#11
knightkrawler00 Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2004 Location: Prosser WA Posts: 103	A buddy of mine and I shot a level IIA vest with a 45ACP 200gr SWC loaded a little hot. The vest was draped over a sheet of 3/4" plywood. The bullet pushed the vest through the plywood, leaving a 2.5" hole in the sheet. That would have definately broke some bones if not much worse.

February 13, 2005, 09:28 AM	#12
Springer45 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Location: Land of Sky Blue Waters Posts: 183	I've read that Kevlar vests are designed to deflect inward as much as 44mm in the process of stopping a bullet. That's 1.7 inches..."Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark."