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April 15, 2020, 05:39 PM | #1 |
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Difference between Cylinder Choke and Improved Cylinder Choke
I bought a shotgun for home defense use that came with a modified choke. I intend to use this shotgun primarily with Federal 00 Buckshot with the FliteControl wads. I have read that the FliteControl wad has patterning issues with the modified choke (the choke’s compression damages the wads tail) and that a cylinder choke is recommended. I can get a cylinder choke or improved cylinder choke for my shotgun but not sure which would be most appropriate.
Any advice appreciated. |
April 15, 2020, 06:05 PM | #2 |
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A cylinder choke is .000 constriction (same size as the bore diameter), while an IC is nominally .010 constriction. It is my understanding the the IC seems to be the favored constriction for use with these rounds and slugs.
Only one way to know for sure and that is to hit the pattern plate at your local trap/skeet club and see how each one does.
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April 15, 2020, 07:07 PM | #3 |
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FITASC, Thanks for taking the time to reply. You are exactly right, I need to get to the range and see how this ammo patterns in the real world from my shotgun. I hate to buy something I don’t need so I guess I’ll just flip a coin and get one of the chokes and give it a try.
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April 15, 2020, 07:21 PM | #4 |
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Some brands will offer a "skeet" tube that is somewhere between Cyl and IC. With the shells I've used Cyl throws a wider pattern than I like. But I've not tried that brand. I'd shoot a few of them through the modified tube and see how they do.
Depending on the brand of shotgun you have replacement choke tubes aren't terribly expensive. Usually $15-$25 each unless you need some specialty tube for turkey or waterfowl. You could probably place a "want to buy" ad in the classifieds here and get some cheap.
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April 16, 2020, 05:51 AM | #5 |
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what shotgun did you buy? if i have a extra one i,ll send it free for the shipping.
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April 16, 2020, 09:12 AM | #6 |
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Eastbank, Thank you for your very generous offer!
I ordered a choke online for a decent price to try In my shotgun. If the choke gets me within a few inches of spread at 20 yards with the Flitecontrol ammo I think the difference between a cylinder / improved cylinder choke will be irrelevant. At any distance greater than 20 yards my off-hand shooting isn’t good enough that it would make a difference. Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply, and especially Eastbank. I’m amazed at the knowledge and helpfulness of the members of this forum. Thank you. |
April 16, 2020, 09:15 AM | #7 |
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Thanks jmr40, you were right, I found one online much cheaper than I thought it would be. Now I just have to endure the wait. Anything firearms related has extended order fill / shipping times. Glad I bought ammo well before this madness.
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April 16, 2020, 11:28 AM | #8 |
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It is a shotgun for self defense???? IN your house??? 10 or 12 yards would be a long shot in my house. Did you shoot the gun????
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April 18, 2020, 07:45 AM | #9 |
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you sure you want a wide spread in your home?
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July 11, 2020, 07:28 PM | #10 |
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Pete2, yes, both inside and outside of my home. Why?
Stuckinthe60s, my ammunition of choice, Hornady Critical Defense 00 Buckshot with the Versatite wad (nearly identical to Federal FliteControl wad), patterns significantly tighter with a cylinder choke vs a modified choke. Constricting chokes interfere with the versatite wad. |
July 17, 2020, 09:10 PM | #11 |
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At "down the hall" or across the room distance why are you even concerned with tightening a pattern. Most likely it's going to be one big hole, and you will need to have accuracy similar o a rile or handgun.
In addition, if you miss, large buckshot loads are going to penetrate walls with damaging energy similar to a handgun. Wasn't the idea of the Flight Control wad to extend the hunting range of a shotgun.
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July 18, 2020, 07:02 AM | #12 |
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exactly........
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July 18, 2020, 08:28 AM | #13 |
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The OP is using self defense ammunition, not waterfowl buckshot.
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July 18, 2020, 01:00 PM | #14 |
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I doubt that you could tell the difference between full choke and cylinder bore at in-home distances.
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July 18, 2020, 09:44 PM | #15 |
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<sigh>
Because, as I typed above, indoors / across the room / down the hall scenarios are are only part of my home defense requirements, and there are several spans within my home longer than 10-12 yards. I prefer the tighter pattern the versatite wad provides for outdoor home defense against two or four legged threats. Cheapshooter, I am aware of the “damaging energy” the shotgun brings to the party. It’s one of the reasons I chose it for the role. Last edited by Snidely Whiplash; July 18, 2020 at 09:52 PM. |
July 19, 2020, 01:20 AM | #16 |
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For what it's worth... My self defense shotgun has a factory 18.5" barrel and a cylinder bore. Back when I was much younger I shot it a lot at what I considered to be self defense distances. I don't think I ever got pattern at 15 yards that was 2". Most of the time I recall getting somewhat less than that.
What ever you shoot, practice, practice, practice... Also buck shot is too much for indoor defense at those ranges. Even #8 bird shot will penetrate interior walls at this distance so practice is all that more important. Years ago I had a roommate that was a former cop and he showed me how he loaded his shotgun. The first 2 rounds out of the tube were #8, followed by 2 #4, then 1 BB, then a 00 Buck and last but not least a slug. I bought the same model gun and I load mine pretty much the same today. Tony |
July 19, 2020, 09:07 AM | #17 |
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TX Nimrod, you are exactly right. I chose the Hornady Critical Defense 00 Buckshot specifically for the versatite wad and it’s 1600 fps velocity and associated penetration capabilities.
Geezerbiker, I’m not sure of the logic behind the advice given by your former cop roommate. That is advice that would not at all suit my requirements and home defense needs / strategy. |
July 19, 2020, 10:21 AM | #18 |
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why not take a trip to the range and pattern it all?
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July 19, 2020, 10:28 AM | #19 |
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I know this isn't all that precise, but it shows that anything under 10m is pretty much the same with cyl/ic.
hope it helps.
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July 19, 2020, 12:17 PM | #20 |
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Stuckinthe60’s posted “ why not take a trip to the range and pattern it all?‘
Exactly what I’ve done since I made the original post more than 3 months ago and since I obtained a cylinder choke for my shotgun. My pattern results were similar to https://youtu.be/ihkFcpL7UME Thank you for posting the chart but the 10m range is not a concern for me. I can keep all 8 pellets on target with any choke at 10 meters, but the versatite wad with a cylinder choke gives me a much tighter pattern at all indoor AND OUTDOOR distances that I might be required to engage at. |
July 19, 2020, 12:32 PM | #21 |
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you do know a shotgun isn't suppose to be a rifle right?
youre spread is to compensate for flinch and his movement past lamps chairs walls etc. if im going to engage a perp in a house, with a shotgun, give me some spread! cyl is my friend. heck one ball is all it takes anyway. my goal isn't to make hamburger. the goal is to put him down 1st....get closer and then make hamburger.
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July 19, 2020, 02:15 PM | #22 | |
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Quote:
I recall Yancey Derringer's sidekick Pahoo with a whippet under his blanket. It produced an even dinner plate size pattern at any range. It was always clearly seen against a wall, because he seldom if ever hit anybody, actual shootings done by Yancey with a hideout gun. Likewise Wyatt Earp's (Hugh O'Brian TV show) deputy was smart enough to carry a shotgun and ride a mule. But like most sidekicks, was seldom if ever the decider in a gunfight. |
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July 19, 2020, 03:50 PM | #23 |
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Stuckinthe60’s posted: “you do know a shotgun isn't suppose to be a rifle right?”
You do know that sarcasm, as opposed to rational discussion where you present your facts and opinions, is a pretty poor reflection on your argument and character, right? Stuckinthe60’s posted: “heck one ball is all it takes anyway. my goal isn't to make hamburger. the goal is to put him down 1st....get closer and then make hamburger.” I had to read this several times to make sure I read it right. This opinion shows such a lack of good sense and judgment that it is startling. The goal is certainly not to “put him down 1st .... get closer and then make hamburger” and I wish you the best of luck in justifying that to the investigators, prosecutor, or jury. I also have no desire to risk the life and safety of me and my family by operating under the assumption that “one ball is all it takes” when it comes to an invader in my home, or a predator that I need to engage outside of my home. Anyone breaking into my home will be assumed to have done so with the intent to harm me and / or my family. They will be met with every ounce of fight and fury that I have. I will greet them with full shock and awe. I don’t want to risk the safety of me and my family with a spread of .33 caliber pellets in the hope that “one ball is all it takes”. I want the invader hit with a tight pattern. I want them hit with each and every one of the 8 pellets per round that I fire at them (while they are on their feet, not after they are down). I want one big hole, or at least 16 .33 caliber holes (8 going in, 8 going out) in the invader of my home. I want to assault each of that home invader’s senses with the maximum overwhelming fury that my .12 gauge can deliver. And that intention is not for the benefit of the first invader of my home. The first invader is DOA, it’s fully for the benefit of anyone accompanying them. I want any co-conspirators to be so overwhelmed by the sheer devastation enacted upon the first home invader that the others decide “Screw this, there’s nothing but death for me in this house”. As to the tight pattern as it relates to outdoor home defense, the Versatite (FliteControl) wad extends the effective range of the 00 buckshot and allows for much greater effectiveness against four legged predators that I may need to engage. Your suggested strategy of “one ball is all it takes“ with regard to bears or panthers, both of which are common in my area, will do nothing but make them mad. Last edited by Snidely Whiplash; July 19, 2020 at 04:25 PM. |
July 19, 2020, 04:38 PM | #24 |
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this is not sarcasm. its a fact.
people with HD shotguns tend to think a shotgun is a rifle and try to plant one good shot. the whole purpose of having a shotgun is to send multi-projectiles downrange. shot gives users a window of error in a stress situation. HD isn't deer hunting with slugs. bottom line, shotguns with sights are aimed. shotguns with buck shot are pointed. people can talk science, loads, theory, and all the hoopla all they want. bottom line....in goes the buck, pull the trigger. close works. our military has been using cyl for generations. I did. 1974 to 1997. if its good enough for my military...its good enough for me. and was. hope this helps. you got my opinion. im sticking to it.
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July 19, 2020, 05:41 PM | #25 |
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Last edited by Snidely Whiplash; July 20, 2020 at 06:06 AM. |
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