Is Midway going out of business???

[TexasSeaRay]

Is it me, or does it seem like Midway is out of dang near everything that has to do with reloading?

I just got through perusing their site, against my better judgement since it makes my blood pressure jump, and damned if they didn't have "out of stock, backorder ok" on better than eight out of ten items that I'm looking to buy this week.

Not from them, though.

Don't know, but I'm getting just about ready to toss them in the "has-been" pile of businesses I no longer trade with. Their BS double-haz mat fees for separate primer and powder shipping is what really started the ball rolling.

Their ridiculous increase in "shipping and handling" fees give me a bellyache, too.

I just bought a casting pot and saved fifteen percent on the price alone ordering it somewhere else--and saved DOUBLE on the shipping charges. Found my lube/sizer at another place for over TWENTY PERCENT less than Midway's price, plus FREE shipping.

I've been a loyal customer of Midway for several decades--even before I began reloading. But 2007 was a bad year in terms of outrageous shipping fees, excessive delays in shipping, not having the stuff in stock, price increases . . . 2008 is starting off even worse and now their on-hand availability of so much of their stuff is zilch.

Got a letter sent off. Will see how they respond, but I'm not optimistic. And besides, there are too many other good places out there that actually have what they advertise in stock and for better prices and for WAY less in shipping and "handling."

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed this?

Jeff

[Powderman]

I can remember a time when Midway was the go-to place for almost everything I needed. I have purchased literally thousands of dollars worth of stuff from them since I first started ordering, back in the 80's.

Now, because of the reasons that you have already mentioned, I have ordered very few things from them. The only things I have ordered in recent memory have been Norma cases for my .45-120.

I have found Graf and Sons-- www.grafs.com --to be the best online source for general shopping now. They are cheaper, and when they say free shipping, they MEAN free!

I get all of my gunsmithing needs from Brownell's; most of my mil-surp projectiles in .223 or .308 I have found at good prices from www.gibrass.com .

Another good source is Widener's.

I am very afraid that unless Midway gets back on the stick--REALLY fast--they might go the way of the dinosaur.

[outerlimit]

I have noticed the same thing. They are always out of stock of many things nowadays. Not at all like it used to be. I still see them advertising on the Outdoor channel all the time though.

[mniesen89]

I dont know if anyone else has noticed,but its not just midway,cabelas is just as bad.I'm starting to wonder if the reloading maufacturers are slowing down production or something.Maybe they know something we dont.Something has to change though.

[Wildalaska]

Midway has generally had what I need when I need it.

WildbutmyneedsareuniqueAlaska TM

[oldbillthundercheif]

Their prices are terrible, but they have oddball gear that few others stock. Most of my Midway purchases are rare and expensive rimfire ammunition. Nobody else carries Lapua Speed Ace, and that's my favorite for small game hunting.

[Hommbs]

I think it's just the recent price increases in factory ammo that have driven an enormous influx of new reloaders into the "hobby".

[Tim R]

My experience echo's Powderman's. I gave up on Midway some years ago.

[Double Naught Spy]

Right, in a couple of years when prices on ammo drop, there is going to be a LOT of lightly used reloading gear on the market. Until then, people are panic buying reloading supplies.

[darrentxs]

I split my recent order between Midway & Midsouth Shooters Supply in order to get what I wanted.

Midsouth has a terrible search feature. If at first you think they don't have what you want, try broader search terms then narrow in or manually page down. They probably do. It just takes forever to find it. My packages arrived quickly from both places.

I ordered some items from Boseguns too. Apparently their website is not current with what is out of stock. My order is delayed waiting for stuff now. They did email and give me that option.

Both of he Mid* suppliers have my wishlists. It's a nice feature that keeps up with things on it, in or out of stock.

Midway sent me a huge catalog too, their #31 which shows the Hornady free bullet offers dated from Jan 1, '08 through Dec 31, '08. That's a brand new catalog so I presume Midway isn't going anywhere.

[rgitzlaff]

I'm also not very happy with them. I like the feature they have that when they are out of stock with something, it will list a date they expect it in stock. The problem is, that date is just a wild guess. I will wait for that date for a particular item to come into stock, when it hits the date they expect it in stock, the date jumps another week or two forward!! If they have no idea when it will be in, they should just say that. In any other business, when you have stuff on order, you know pretty well within a couple of days when it will be there.

I have dealer accounts at both Midway and Graf's. Graf's is now getting my business for most items that I need. Midway still has a much better selection, but Graf's pricing is WAY better, and thier shipping prices are fair also. The only thing I don't like, is that they also have things out of stock, but they won't tell you when it'll be in. There is a function to enter your email to be notified when the item is in stock, but you never hear from them about it.

[freakshow10mm]

Midway isn't going anywhere.

I have dealer accounts set up with them and Graf's. Graf's gets the bulk of my business now. I only order gun parts and things that are out of stock at Graf's if I need it right quick. Midway has always been pretty good about shipping times. Usually less than a week. Average is about three days.

The dealer discount at Graf's is stellar; Midway's is pathetic. Some of their dealer prices are higher than retail. Go figure. Also, most of the time the discount is only a few dollars, literally. Retail price: $74.99. Dealer price $72.99. Two frickin dollars. I'll order from Graf's and pay $62 for the same item.

[rn22723]

They have to pay for all them TV shows they support! There are better places to buy from even with out getting dealer pricing at Grafs.

The Gunstop www.gunstop.com is very hard to beat on hardware prices as they are dealer direct with places like Lapua, Dillon and Redding. And, a few other places. If you want quality hardware The Gunstop is very hard to beat, now the bullets might be better at times but no place is perfect.

Midway back in the early 80's and into the early 90's was a decent place to get stuff from. Things change. Powder Valley great for Powder and Primers if you have to buy via the internet. Just have to support the places that do right by you. Shop wise!

[4sarge]

Still buy some items from Midway. Nothing is available here for 50 miles. But last time they sent an email on pulled bullets, I clicked the link immediately and they were out of stock. I had some dies saved in my cart a week ago and went to complete the order and they were sold out. When they have it, they get it to you quick though. Shipping and handling $$ are really creeping up though. Seems like they could use flat rate USPS on much but don't.

Kudo's to Powder Valley and Widener's. Widener's has been very good to me. Allowing me to call the next day and increase my order for primers since I had to pay a hazmat fee. Also their deals on bulk bullets are good especially like the free shipping on those.

[Alleykat]

I'm another disgruntled Midway customer. I'd say "former" customer, but I do still occasionally place small orders with them. Few years ago, I was spending $4000-$5000 annually with Midway.

Had a dealer account with Graf's. That's where I got the best price on my Dillon 650. However, it always ticks me off that Graf's charges a 3% surcharge for cc use, when that's clearly against their contract with the cc companies. Their "discount for cash" mantra is just blather; wouldn't hold up in a court, if anybody were so motivated.

[freakshow10mm]

The Gunstop www.gunstop.com is very hard to beat on hardware prices as they are dealer direct with places like Lapua, Dillon and Redding. And, a few other places. If you want quality hardware The Gunstop is very hard to beat, now the bullets might be better at times but no place is perfect.

Their prices for Dillon equipment are the same as Dillon's. I sell Dillon equipment for cheaper than that with shipping included.

[Sevens]

I'm not ready to give up on Midway USA yet, and I have a number of reasons why. Before I say why, I will completely agree with everyone who has seen way, way too much product on back order. I've been waiting a month now to make my next order and I refuse to do it while something I need continues to be on back order. I don't want to pay shipping twice, so I won't order items on back order.

Every day that goes by with wishlist stuff on back order, the closer I'm getting to trying someone else. Even if I do go somewhere else, I'm not walking away from Midway yet. Here's why:

• Been with them since the early 90s, before I was online and ordering from a web site. Loyalty means something to me. It doesn't mean everything-- they do need to compete for my business, they don't get it unconditionally, but I won't quit them just like that.
• Their customer service has NEVER let me down. And I've hardly needed to use it, but it has been 15+ years I've been ordering from them. They communicate quickly, resolve even minor problems and I've always felt like they cared about me as a customer. When they've sent 'immediate' sales offers and percent discounts, and I've had a hiccup on the website in activating the code for it, a quick phone call and they make it happen.
• Their web site is flexible and predictable and I haven't found a better one from any other merchant. And the race isn't even close. The wish list, for just keeping tabs on items you are just considering grabbing is a terrific tool. The shipping calculator is a feature that almost nobody offers. I use it all the time. They have some bullets on sale? I check my shipping, then add the bullets, and check the shipping again and I can see if it's worth it with shipping included. Only a couple key strokes. I've dealt with enough online merchants that make it very difficult to see how much they are going to nail you with shipping. There may be valid complaints about shipping costs, but it's not like Midway is sneaking anything in on you. You will know to the penny how much it'll cost. I love that.
• New reloaders: They come here and have no idea what to purchase to get rolling in this hobby. With Midway's site, you can pick and choose each little thing and compare with other tools that do the same job. For a brand new reloader, there's not a better place to try and build that initial setup, IMO.
• User reviews: I don't even have to ask, I'm confident in saying that a lot of folks who have been Midway customers and then take their business elsewhere are still going to come back to the website and flip through user reviews. The reviews are terrific. Not just for checking to see if a product is making buyers happy, but to learn techniques and tips for installation or use of the item. It's a terrific resource and if you don't know about them, you are missing out.
• Prices: IMO, it's not that Midway has been raising their prices any more than the market is bearing, it's that competitors and smaller operations are getting much more competitive with theirs. For Midway's part, they are bigger these days than they ever have been, there's more folks buying this stuff than ever before, and they can probably be a little less competitive with their pricing in the past. That may not give us the absolute lowest price on every item, but that is how free market business works in our country. For me, the whole package including the site, the quick shipping and the customer service is part of what I'm paying for.
• Another thing about their prices: There seem to be some online merchants that are under cutting their prices on a lot of things, but I can't come even in the hemisphere of matching their prices (forget beating them) with brick and mortar gun shops or even gun shows. Everything I buy or need costs less at Midway than it does at any of the shops I stumble across. And the few dealers at gun shows who have reloading supplies aren't offering prices as low as Midway.
  
• Midway's support of programming on shooting, hunting and gun television shows is a very good thing. The Outdoor Channel isn't ABC, and they aren't getting "ratings" per se. Outside of you and I (shooters, hunters, fisherman), nobody is watching this channel and new people aren't flocking to it. BUT... someone has to advertise for a network like this to survive, and Midway is all over it. Their support keeps these shows on TV, and I enjoy these shows. I also enjoy the little segments with Larry Potterfield that show us how to do different things. I watch every one they air, even if I've seen it already.
• This is a big one: Midway USA's efforts to support the NRA with their own money and profits, and even more so, their efforts to allow their customers to EASILY make a huge difference in fund raising for the NRA. It's simple, painless and automatic for me to add $2 (when I was a broke college kid) to adding $7 or $8 to my order that goes directly to the NRA-ILA in defense of 2nd Amendment rights. And while some other merchants are doing this too, who came up with the idea? I don't know for sure if it was Midway, but if I had to guess, I would guess that it was. I was chipping in a couple of bucks with each order back in '92. What other merchant was doing that?
  
  Now sure, any business in our hobby that tries to help support the fight for 2nd Amendment rights is looking out for themselves and the future of their own business... but aren't we all in this together?

I hope that folks are sending e-mails with complaints and concerns to Midway. They've always come across to me as a company that cares about and reacts to it's customer base, so I'd much rather folks speak their mind to them rather than just run off to someone else. I think that folks complaining will only make Midway a better place to shop, and that benefits me.

Midway has earned my business. They don't get it by default. They aren't guaranteed to keep it. But for all those reasons and probably some more I can't recall right now, that's what I think.

[freakshow10mm]

Great post.

[buffdriver]

Had a dealer account with Graf's. That's where I got the best price on my Dillon 650. However, it always ticks me off that Graf's charges a 3% surcharge for cc use, when that's clearly against their contract with the cc companies. Their "discount for cash" mantra is just blather; wouldn't hold up in a court, if anybody were so motivated.

I agree. I have wanted to order from Graf's, but ordering under their dealer program is much more difficult. They don't have free shipping for dealers, and they don't give an estimate of what the shipping will be. Unless I want to pay the 3% premium for credit card orders, I must send enough cash to cover shipping and they will refund the difference.

Huh? That means mailing in a cash payment that is an estimate and then waiting for a refund of overpayment. Not a great way to do business. If you need something quickly, you don't want to mail a cash payment. That adds several days to the whole process.

Graf's regular prices are still great, but every time that I've wanted to order from them, they've been out of stock on some or all of what I wanted. IMO, they are out of stock on much more than Midway. So, Midway still gets most of my business, just by having most or all of what I want in stock.

[fourrobert13]

I think the problem stems from recent ammo prices. With ammo cost going up every time you turn around, people are starting to reload more. Those of us that have been reloading for some time now usually buy in bulk, and all the new guys are starting to do the same thing. Seems like evry week, here and on other forums, people are asking what's it cost, or what do I need to start? With that being said, manufacturers are having trouble keeping up with the new demand, and distributers start to get a bad rap when they are out of stock. It's not just Midway, it just about every one. I think eventually, it will balance back out.

[scrat]

for what i am looking for i ams sometimes subject to purchasing from midways. I think not only are the prices a little high sometimes. But the shipping is just over the roof. I mean if anyone really needs some items from lee buy direct from lee. There prices will be a little higher but if you purcase a lot of lee items the $4.00 shipping charge will take care of everything else. Now as for midway. you can never win. no matter how little or how much you purchase you really get it in the end on the shipping charges. I try to wait to the end of the year for my really big purchases. I notice thats when both midway and cabelas come out with some big discount savings or even lower the shipping charges a lot. I took advantage of these savings this year and purchased a lot from both of them.

[bdcbbq]

I'm new to shooting but have been shopping on the internet for 10 years. I've only done a little business with Midway but have been completely satisfied so far with each purchase. I know they will get some regular business from me. I drive through Columbia, MO once or twice a year and I like the option to place an order, prepay and then pick it up at their location. I figure I can save more than enough money on shipping costs for those items I want to always have on hand like 10,000 bullets, powder, primer, etc. Add a couple of friends who want to split the order and save a few extra bucks and they will get my business. Being able to stop there is n ice if driving by.

I also like there active support of the shooting community.

[TexasSeaRay]

Graf's will in all liklihood never get my business--not with their 3% credit card surcharge. And besides, their backstock situation is at times worse than Midway's.

Sevens, I understand your loyalty to Midway and that's commendable. But loyalty is a very definite two-way street. Like you, I've been shopping with Midway for a very long time--since the mid-80's. There is no telling how much money I've spent with that Missouri bunch, but I can count the number of "thank you" letters, VIP discounts, "we'll waive shipping on your next order as our way of saying 'thanks' offers," etc that I received from Midway in all that time on one hand.

And I'll have all four fingers and exactly one thumb left.

There are online places I order things aviation and airplane related. I get "thank you letters" all the time along with "we'll waive shipping as our way of saying thank you" offers generally once a year.

Same goes for a couple of places I order things boating related. Hell, I get a rewards card from Bass Pro Shops that works both online and in their retail store.

Backorder I can handle. Double charging me on the shipping, I can't and I won't. When you're the biggest gorilla in the zoo, you can more of what you want. With Midway being the biggest online distributor, they can--and should--be able to exercise greater pull with manufacturers.

Their shipping prices gripe me. Two clients we worked with (JC Penney and Sears) both used to do a lot of shipping via (first) their catalog, and then internet site. I understand the cost of a shipping department.

BUT, that cost should be zero-sum neutral and the shipping department should NOT be in the business of making a profit, but rather simply breaking even on expense. Midway is the only online entity I shop with that has a minimum order of xxxx dollars or a minimum $9.999 shipping fee.

That is crap. And that is exactly how I stated it in my letter to Larry Potterfield.

Final thing, the NRA Roundup--not exclusive to Midway. I've found a number of other online places that also offer it.

If I didn't like Midway, I wouldn't be griping and raising hell with them. I'd simply be gone. But enough is enough and quickly becoming too much.

Jeff

[Scorch]

The backstock situation you are describing is likely due to the fact that more distributors use drop shipping nowadays to fill orders. It keeps their costs lower and therefore keeps prices lower.

Drop shipping, for those who are unfamiliar with it, is where the seller (Midway in this case) takes an order for something he does not have in stock (bullets), tells the vendor (Sierra or Hornady, whoever) to ship it to the customer (you). When the vendor tells them it shipped, the distributor tells the customer it has shipped. When the customer (you) receives the order, the label is printed with the distributor's name and address so you never know it came from somewhere else. That way the distributor never has to pay for shipping to their warehouse and all the handling, which can get very expensive when you are talking about heavy stuff like bullets.

So go ahead and order out of stock items, they will still ship to you as soon as possible.

[Wildalaska]

Nobody that surcharges credit cards get our biz.

I have other reasons for NEVER using Grafs beyond that.

WildplottingAlaska ™