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Old April 19, 2019, 08:53 AM   #26
buck460XVR
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Originally Posted by 2wheelwander View Post
Dad and I spent a of of time watching spaghetti westerns. I'm shy about the Italians despite reading mostly favorable reviews.
I too grew up watching Spaghetti westerns. Funny how those six shooters always seemed to have more than 6 shots.

I'm not a big fan of SA, even tho I have seriously thought about getting into SASS. For me it's more of a lever action rifle and a sawed off coach gun kinda thingy. I've had SA revolvers in the past, I too had a late 60's 3 screw in .44 mag. Went down the road for a SxS 12 ga. Coach Gun.

The Italian SAs have gotten good reviews and are said to have some of the biggest bang for the buck out there. You claim you want a field gun, not a collector. I'd say, maybe give 'em a try iffin you want the real old west look without breaking the bank.

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Originally Posted by 2wheelwander View Post
Won't consider tube feds excepting a New Original Henry.
^^^This was the reason for my statement about all levers being tube fed. While there are some levers like the Ruger 96 and the BLR that are magazine fed, since you were looking for a cowboy type gun, I didn't include them. Both tho, are excellent choices for a field use lever gun. Much safer, faster and easier to load and unload compared to a gate loaded lever.

As for no guns to look at in your area......I feel sorry for you. Hard to believe with the huge increase in interest and demand lately for SAs, that any store with a good inventory wouldn't have something you could handle. Gun shows around here, while having their fair share of Ostrich Jerky and $5 Chinese knives, also have a significant amount of handguns, including SA cowboy types to handle. One thing I do whenever my wife and I travel is to stop at gun shops I see along the way. Most of the time they have the same old/same old, but many times they have things I don't get to see in my area. Been a long time since I bought a gun from looking at a picture or just by going from a strangers suggestion, without handling the gun in person first. I know I'd be quite reluctant to do it again.
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Old April 19, 2019, 10:55 AM   #27
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As for no guns to look at in your area......I feel sorry for you. Hard to believe with the huge increase in interest and demand lately for SAs, that any store with a good inventory wouldn't have something you could handle. Gun shows around here, while having their fair share of Ostrich Jerky and $5 Chinese knives, also have a significant amount of handguns, including SA cowboy types to handle.
I haven't seen any huge increase in interest or demand for single action revolvers in my neck o' the woods. There's a public/private range just a few miles from my home that hosts cowboy action shoots one Sunday every month, but even with enough interest to keep that going I just don't see new SAA and clone revolvers in the stores.

There is a small gunshop locally that usually has one or two used Rugers in the case, typically Blackhawks. Once in awhile they'll have an old Colt, but they cater to collectors and an old Colt SAA is more likely to be bought as a safe queen rather than as a shooter. Other gun shops near me rarely, if ever, have any 1873-type single actions.

The biggest gunshop in the state is an hour north of me. I rarely go there just to go there, but I try to stop in if I'm in the area for business. They're a big Ruger dealer so they generally have Blackhawks and possibly a New Vaquero or two on display. But ... nothing to compare them to. No Colts, no Ubertis, no Piettas, no Cimmarons, etc.
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Old April 19, 2019, 01:23 PM   #28
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Stopped at my local Ace Hardware store to get my 40# propane tank filled today, and took a glance at their handgun display. They had a new Pietta US 7th Cavalry and a new Cimarron 1890, both for under $600, Both seemed like a nice piece of work for the money. They also had a new Pistolero for a tad over 5 bills. All were in .45 Colt. They also had a coupla Vaqueros, the Bisley was just over $800 and the standard blued, was 7 something? It ain't a really huge Ace, but they do have a good supply of handguns. I was impressed with what they had for SA revolvers....more than they had DAs. One that really caught my eye was the Cimarron "Wild Bunch Combo" for a tad over $900. I know it's not .45 Colt, but then again, I ain't a SA guy...........

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Old April 19, 2019, 05:59 PM   #29
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Some good progress today. Stopped into 2 LGS. One is a local/rural shop and able gunsmith. They had a new Taylor (Uberti) Smoke wagon. Very attractive gun. Color case frame (anyone know if this is real color case or imitation?). Had a few burs on it but nothing deal breaking. I was impressed with the fit/finish of the gun. Didn't 'click' with me, but I warmed up to Uberti/Taylor/Pietta after handling the thing. This shop does a lot of consignment and gets unique things in from time to time. I'll keep an eye on them. Great shop to deal with.

THEN! I stopped into one of my favorite LGS. Well stocked, reloading supplies, great to deal with as well. Began talking with the owner, who unbeknownst to me, is a big SAA, lever gun, keen collector. He was more than happy to show off a few from his collection. Had a mint 1970's Colt SAA. Color case frame, about a 7" barrel, the box, the whole thing. Then he brought out a beautiful Winchester made in the 1950's.

Decisions. . . .

Side note. The shop that had the Taylor had a very nice Smith Model 41. Very nice. It looked near new except for some pitting about the size of a nickel near the muzzle. That slide was on butter No nicks in the grips, the finish was otherwise very nice. Those had been on my semi short list for a while. Consignment, $900. I nearly bit. I have a 22A that has lost its luster to me and figured I could sell that and help offset that cost.

Trying to be disciplined. Stay - focused.

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Old April 19, 2019, 06:43 PM   #30
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Levers - if its domestic its gotta be a Winchester. 1873 of course leads the list but 1892's are up there too. It has to be fed from a trap door. Won't consider tube feds excepting a New Original Henry.
As already mentioned by DaleA, it doesn't appear that what you want is a "trapdoor" rifle if you're looking for a lever action repeater. The Springfield Trapdoor was a single shot rifle, called "trapdoor" because the top of the receiver flipped open like a trap door for ejection and loading.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_model_1873

Also, you said you want a Winchester 1973 but you don't want a tubular magazine. The 1873 has a tubular magazine.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/produc...odel-1873.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winche...fle#Model_1873
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Old April 19, 2019, 07:12 PM   #31
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Sorry Aguila Blanca, I do want a tube magazine, I do not want a tube loaded mag, a la new Henrys. Should've been more clear and butchered my terms earlier. Tube loaded are fine on .22's, but I do not prefer them on centerfires. Though I'd make exception for a Spencer.
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Old April 19, 2019, 07:43 PM   #32
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The term you are looking for is "loading gate".

Originally it was the King's Patent loading gate, and its what essentially turned the Henry design Oliver Winchester had been making into what we consider "actual" Winchesters..

Marlin adopted their version shortly after Winchester, I believe...

Some folks whine about the loading gate, they pinch or cut their fingers, and don't like that.

The trick to avoiding that is simple. Just use another cartridge (Not your finger) to push the round through the loading gate. When your magazine is full, you have one round left to put back in your pocket, pouch belt or however you carry your spare ammo. Never found that to be a problem, for me.
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Old April 20, 2019, 01:23 AM   #33
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Some folks whine
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Old April 20, 2019, 12:52 PM   #34
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"...built 1970's or prior = good quality..." Is an internet myth.
What are you planning on doing with a .45 Colt?
I'd be thinking Vaquero myself. Or a Schofield copy. But what you want it for is paramount.
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Old April 20, 2019, 07:28 PM   #35
2wheelwander
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My preference for a loading gate is simple, I like the looks much better and hate the idea of extending a tube to slide rounds in one at at time. Tube loading is clumsy to me, even on the .22's. I have a Marlin .444 SS and don't mind a gate at all. Just a smoother look to me.

My pans for it? Mostly a range toy, but I'd consider taking it deer hunting. I watched Super Redhawks for quite a while for this purpose, but never jumped on one. Seeing that I'd consider a 7th Calvary repop, it'll most likely be a range toy and something to ring steel with.

My collection greatly pales in comparison to probably most people here, but, I'm doing pretty good. Want something unique, which is why I'd prefer something made when quality control was built in, not inspected in. When fit and finish were assumed, not inspected before you put your money down. The more I look, the more OK I am with an Italian variant. As I stated earlier, I'm not hung up on a SA, just a nice looking, classic revolver.

Oh, and why 45 LC? That's the simplest part. A friend gave me a box of .45 LC and I don't have one. So, I need to buy something chambered in .45 LC. Waste not want not. I fear one day someone will give me a box of .50 BMG.
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Old April 21, 2019, 08:08 AM   #36
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https://www.gunbroker.com/item/797375739

I was all over this until I saw the Made in Japan stamp. Pretty gun though.
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Old April 21, 2019, 08:32 AM   #37
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What, "Made in Japan" is worse than "Made in Italy?"
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Old April 21, 2019, 08:47 AM   #38
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"Winchester" has been nothing but a name for decades. Even when Winchester rifles were still being made in New Haven, Connecticut, they were made by a company called U.S. Repeating Arms under license from Olin Mathieson Corporation (now Olin Corporation), which owns (or owned) the Winchester brand name, for years before USRAC went out of business.

USRAC was created in 1981. It went bankrupt in 1989 and was purchased by FN Herstal. USRAC operated in the old Winchester factory in New Haven until 2006, when it closed down completely.

Next time you're in a Walmart, take a wander through the camping section of sporting goods. Somewhere in there you should find some knives for sale. The last time I looked, they were selling some Winchester brand knives, both folders and fixed blade. They're in blister packs. Flip one over, and the fine print will tell you that they are made in China, exclusively for Walmart, under license from Olin Corporation.

"Winchester" is just a name, but the Japanese made Winchester rifles are just as good as (if not better than) the "Winchester" rifles that were made in New Haven.
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Old April 21, 2019, 11:38 AM   #39
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Jim Watson - Made in Japan is not worse than made in Italy, and I have no doubt they are fine firearms. But a Winchester made in Nankoku Japan will never be worth what one made in the USA will be, especially from CT. For my money, if I buy a Winchester lever, I want one I can pass to my kids.

This kind of brings me back to the Italians. I believe they are better guns, especially than, early Colt SAA. Guess its sort of like cars. A new base model Corvette is better in every single way than a 1963 split window, but you don't see people rubber a new Vette, or the owner smiling the way a classic car owner does.


I'm not saying I wouldn't buy an Italian because I know if I buy an early Colt, I'll likely rarely, if ever, shoot it. I want a shooter. Well, truth be known, I want both, but can only afford one right now. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a Winchester I can afford.
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Old April 21, 2019, 07:22 PM   #40
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The only American Winchester in .45 LC is one of the 94AE series.
Shooting a revolver cartridge in the .30-30 action does not always work well, study up.

The Marlin Cowboy .45 is a nice Made in USA lever action, but one made before the Remington amalgamation will be expensive.

I have a real Winchester for CAS but it is a .44-40, because as already explained, they didn't make .45 LC rifles in 1911.
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Old April 21, 2019, 07:40 PM   #41
2wheelwander
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^^Thanks for that info Jim, I didn't realize that. That does change a few things for me. Details like this I don't know I appreciate being explained to me. If Winchester never made a .45 LC in America I'll be in for a LONG search!

In that case, being never made, I'd have to be happy with a Japanese manufacture. Going to call a LGS tomorrow and see about a local price on the blonde maple version. Maybe I'll get lucky.
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Old April 21, 2019, 08:24 PM   #42
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They DID, you just have to accept the peculiarities of the 94AE.
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Old April 22, 2019, 05:54 AM   #43
2wheelwander
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Done some digging and found what you mentioned. Please explain revolver cartidges in a 30-30 action not working well a bit more. Was this a problem child chambering the .45 LC in the 94?

Peculiaraties of the 94AE??
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Old April 22, 2019, 08:23 AM   #44
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The only one I shot may have been an oddball, but it was tricky to load.
I load my 92 as Aquila Blanca said with the added item of not pushing each round all the way through the loading gate. A Winchester will accept a round about 3/4 of the way for you to push it the rest of the way in with the next cartridge. This reduces effort and keeps you from pinching or cutting your thumb on the gate.

On that AE, which was a .44, not a .45, if you got a round all the way in and let the gate close behind it, that was your last round; it would not let you start another in through the gate. Would the next one behave the same way? I don't know, but you should before you buy.
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Old April 22, 2019, 12:33 PM   #45
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A good friend recently bought one of those Miroku Mod '92's in .45 Colt. I believe it has the 24" barrel, round. That rifle is top notch in all regards. Those would certainly be worth a look.
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Old April 23, 2019, 04:21 PM   #46
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I believe I found one. Will post up when it gets here.
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Old April 23, 2019, 11:37 PM   #47
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Take a good look at modern .45 Colt cases, compared to the pre-1900 ones.

Modern case rims are more ...robust than original ones. Nobody made .45 Colt lever guns back in the 1880s, 90s, etc, because it was believed the thin case rim (fully adequate in an SA revolver) would give problems in a lever gun.

Today's brass seems up to the task, but the original case design wasn't.

As to issues with the .45 Colt and the Win 94, you can see some of the same thing in the Win 94 and Marlin 336 in .44 Mag.

Essentially, taking an action designed to feed a 2.550" round (.30-30) and fitting it to work with a 1.600" round (.45 Colt, 1.610" .44 Mag) can work, if everything is done right. But there is nearly an inch of "empty" action so there's lots of room for things to be a tiny bit off.

This is the big reason why you see most 1.6"-ish rounds built using the shorter Win 93 or Marlin 1894 action.

I'm not saying there aren't any good .45 Colt Win 94s only that there is a potential there that isn't found in the shorter actions.
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Old April 24, 2019, 10:41 PM   #48
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IMHO: You would be hard pressed to beat a New Model Ruger Blackhawk or a Ruger Vaquero in 45LC. And I have several of them and I have never had the slightest problem with any of them. That I use for just about everything. As far Lever Action Rifles go, I shoot a Rossi, Marlin, Winchester, and an Old 1873 Model 30 inch barreled Navy Arms all in 45 LC. And for the life of me I can't tell you which one of those rifle is my favorite. I have been shooting and reloading for the 45
LC Cartridge for almost 50 years. And it is without one of my favorites.
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Old April 26, 2019, 10:25 PM   #49
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Based on the OP, I’d be looking at a Ruger Vaquero for a revolver or a Rossi 92 for a lever.
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Old April 27, 2019, 02:28 PM   #50
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The day has arrived gents. Bicentennial Flat top Blackhawk convertible. .45 LC plus a .45 ACP cylinder. Not pictured is the original owners manual with the "send in postcard" filled out by the original dealer located in VA. It has been shot but very well cared for. Grips on it are blond maple.

I greatly appreciate every ones advice, help, and guidance here. This was one of those things that "I'll know when I see it", but just didn't really know what I was looking for. Having the "200th year of liberty" roll mark gave this some uniqueness and I liked it. I'd still like to have a SAA or some such in my safe, but this one popped up and I like it.





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