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Old January 23, 2019, 09:41 AM   #51
dahermit
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I suspect the modern 9 mm ammo be it whatver weight
can now duplicate the ballistics of the .38 Super and the
ammo will be more readily available and cheaper.
"Suspect", but offer no evidence. On the other hand, all my handloading manuals seem to indicate a modest advantage in .38 Super loadings over those for 9MM. And, how much cheaper?

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TBM900, may I suggest a variable spring loaded
spacer for your magazines?
Is there such a thing?
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Old January 23, 2019, 09:41 AM   #52
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In the 1911 platform I would choose .38 Super over 9mm.
You don't see a whole lot of 38 super in factory ammo and then the debate starts about using reloads in a CCW gun
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Old January 23, 2019, 09:46 AM   #53
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You don't see a whole lot of 38 super in factory ammo and then the debate starts about using reloads in a CCW gun
How many different .38 Super factory loads are needed before it would be a legitimate carry gun that did not have to rely on hand loads? As I look up on a shelf and see a factory box of .38 Super ammo, it seems non sequitur to extend the debate to carrying handloads in a CCW gun.
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Old January 23, 2019, 10:06 AM   #54
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My point is I cannot remember the last time I saw 38 super ammo in a gun store
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Old January 23, 2019, 10:15 PM   #55
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That's a shame that the .38 supper is not very popular, it has a great case and with better ammo it comes real close to the .357 Sig. I've always found the 9mm to be the toughest round to get the most accuracy from and that is from a accurate gun, the straight walls of the .38 Super sure make great ammo easy!(from a decent gun)
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Old January 24, 2019, 09:30 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Don P View Post
My point is I cannot remember the last time I saw 38 super ammo in a gun store
Mistakenly bought some at Cabela's a month or so ago..
New to me S&W642..asked bean-bag where .38 special ammo was..he walked up to all the ammo and handed me a box..which I bought..which I found out doesn't fit into a .38Special gun the next day..>38Super

No return..I think I still have it somewhere..
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Old January 25, 2019, 07:08 PM   #57
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I have 5 1911's. 3 in .45acp 1 in 10mm and 1 in 38 Super. Of those 5 only 1 do I consider a self defense / CCW firearm and it is an all steel commander in .45acp. The others are fun guns used primarily for target shooting, although I have carried the 10mm in the woods.

Since I'm a avid re-loader I gravitate towards cartridges that I feel provide optimum accuracy. Over the years I've had half a dozen various 9mm's but never had one I could shoot that well, finally bought a CZ 85 which is the best of all previous models but still no where near what I can do with a .45acp.

Funny thing is after dabbling in 2 40S&W's which I consider similar to the 9mm accuracy wise I got a 10mm, suddenly the .40cal. became a tack driver. That's when the light bulb came on. I think the short powder column of the 40S&W has an effect and the same is true of 9mm. That's what prompted my interest in the 38 Super. So far, in my opinion, that theory has proven true. The 38 Super is a pure joy to shoot and can easily surpass the performance of a 9mm.
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Old January 25, 2019, 07:38 PM   #58
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Thread woefully short of pictures...

Wonderful to shoot, easy to carry. I've never had any functioning problems with it.
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Old February 5, 2019, 03:27 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
In the 1911 platform I would choose .38 Super over 9mm.
I agree, although if 9mm grip length is the reason for a 9mm 1911 there is the BHP, or you could choose a 357Sig 1911.
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Old February 9, 2019, 01:41 PM   #60
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HisSoldier, apparently you are totally unfamiliar with the locked breech Browning 1911 Black Label Pro in .380.
Is it all steel? Does the lockwork appear to be shrunk down 1911 lockwork?

I don't know about this gun, if it is all steel except the grips like an originbal 1911, has the same identical but proportionally sized lockwork, made of steel, I'll agree with you.

I believe many people think just because something looks like another handgun it's identical, for instance many say the P938 is like a 1911, it's totally different everywhere with a few vague similarities, position of the safety and mag release, slide stop and a hammer with locked breech, but doing all those things (Except the slide stop) in different ways.

In my depiction of a 1911 it has an all steel frame, no zinc, no plastic, no aluminum (Original 1911) and no MIM. Very few of what are now called "1911's" are true 1911's. I know Colt started making aluminum framed "1911's" long ago, but I'm talking about the all steel original.
forged
The Llama had an all steel frame, forged steel internal parts, and except for the external extractor was identical to a 1911 in all respects except proportions and quality checking.

I admit the Llama didn't follow the materials specifications outlined by the U.S. Government for it's duty arm but the Llama is far closer than anything made today or since it's time.
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Old February 9, 2019, 02:02 PM   #61
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I did find this out about the Browning Black Label Pro, it's frame is NOT made of a steel forging.
"FRAME – Composite; Fully machined 7075 aluminum sub-frame and slide rails" Same as my disposable carry gun, my Keltec P3AT, which I also have no feelings for.

Leaf, it's far from being a 1911 no matter what you think.
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Old February 9, 2019, 03:19 PM   #62
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Leaf, it's far from being a 1911 no matter what you think.
It's a lot closer to the concept of a 1911 pistol chambered in .380 ACP than about anything else currently on the market, no matter what you think. And the notion that a "true" 1911 has to have all steel components to qualify as an "original" is just your (albeit and obviously valid) opinion. I suppose in your mind any 1911-configured pistol that deviates in the slightest and most minute detail makes it a wannabe. Are the stocks wood or plastic? Do the sights conform perfectly to the "original"?
Most artifacts in life are only "original" once; most everything else are mere pretenders to the throne in some peoples' self-constricted minds.
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Old February 9, 2019, 09:49 PM   #63
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It's a lot closer to the concept of a 1911 pistol chambered in .380 ACP than about anything else currently on the market
I suspect the RIA BabyRoc is much closer, forged steel frame, internals, except locked breech, all may be the same but diminished dimensions as fits the concept.
My point is that the Browning Black Label Pro is made to LOOK on the outside like a 1911, and most gun owners have never dissasembled a real 1911 and therefore don't have a clue.
I'm not talking about minor differences, and certainly not exterior looks, I've seen airsoft guns that looked like a 1911, but only an idiot would say it is one based on that.
On a 1911 the breech drops down as the slide retracts, it has a swinging link that pulls it down out of the upper locking lugs. A 1911 has a forged steel frame as mentioned, and the forged disconnector comes up through the top rear center of the slide where it's positioned to be activated by the slide, it also passes up through the forged sear, which has a distinctive shape, the disconnector establishes contact with the sear when it's in the upper position and that connects the sliding trigger through it to the sear. If it's down it cannot connect the trigger to the sear.

The Llama had all those things, and only the exterior extractor made it not a true 1911. That sear, sliding trigger and disconnector, the safety and how the grip safety works, all those parts are the same.
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CNC produced 416 stainless triggers to replace the plastic triggers on Colt Mustangs, Mustang Plus II's, MK IV Government .380's and Sig P238's and P938's. Plus Colt Mustang hardened 416 guide rods, and Llama .32 and .380 recoil spring buttons, checkered nicely and blued.
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Old February 10, 2019, 07:57 PM   #64
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Hissoldier, you did ok when having to go all the way back seventy or so years with a relatively unusual out of production Ilama to make the comparison. Try not to soil your britches but if you’re willing to consider a fixed barrel blow back BabyRoc a more accurate rendition of the 1911 in .380, well, just say goodnight, Gracie.

Talk about judging by “looks.”

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Old February 10, 2019, 09:15 PM   #65
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I suspect the RIA BabyRoc is much closer, forged steel frame, internals, except locked breech, all may be the same but diminished dimensions as fits the concept.
Your "suspicions" are pretty much suspect when it comes to claiming that an RIA BabyRoc comes anywhere close to what constitutes a legitimate 1911-inspired configuration (past appearance, that is). Design (i.e., Mr. Browning's rendition) trumps material (i.e., steel vs aluminum) every time when it comes to defining what it means to constitute a 1911-styled pistol.
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Old February 10, 2019, 09:58 PM   #66
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Another Vote for the Springfield Armory EMP4

After thinking about the positive points, at least for me, of a 1911 style 9mm, I looked around quite a bit, with a focus on workmanship, design, ergonomics, etc. I subsequently decided to buy the EMP4 Concealed Carry Contour in 9mm and it is fast becoming my favorite. Shooting mostly Winchester White Box 115 gr and Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr FlexLock, and finding it extremely accurate at the distances I have been shooting, 3, 15, and 25 yards.

My previous on duty and off duty firearms were S&W3913TSW, Walther PPS, HK P200SK, a Glock that I was not too impresed with, and most recently the S&W Shield which is a great little gun, but not quite as accurate at 25 yards. But if a 9mm in a pistol based upon the 1911 style design is what is desired, my personal recommendation is the EMP.
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Old February 21, 2019, 09:28 AM   #67
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Yeah, the Dan Wessons would be as far as I go price wise.The Vigil CCO looks accommodating to me. What holster did you get for your Dan Wesson 1911?
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Old February 21, 2019, 11:18 AM   #68
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Wife has an Officer's ACP-sized 1911 in 9mm. Mild recoil, 1911 manual arms, what's not to like? Matter of fact, I prefer 9mm in the OACP variant, after shooting another OACP in .45ACP.

I generally prefer .45ACP to 9mm, but even more important is the 1911 platform. So I say go for the 1911 in 9mm in whatever variant you like best:
All steel GM
LTWT CDR
OACP

And all ya'll moaning about the difficulty of carrying concealed need to get some experience under your belt. Literally and figuratvely. Ol' Slabsides is a bunch easier to pack than those double-stack brick-like plastic fantastics(1).

IWB, any are good and concealable. OWB is fine with the proper cover garment.





(1) Some of which are fine weapons, just not as easy to pack as CCW.
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Old February 21, 2019, 07:10 PM   #69
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I'm waiting for my new Colt Series 70 Competition 9mm to arrive at the LGS. :-)
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Old March 7, 2019, 02:54 PM   #70
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I just bought a new Ruger Target 1911 in 9mm, $800otd. It is a nice looking SS 1911 with adjustable sights and it has ran great with the first 250 rounds!
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Old March 7, 2019, 06:27 PM   #71
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I don’t own a 1911, but if I were to buy one it would definitely be in 45 acp. To me, buying a 1911 in 9mm is like buying a Camaro/challenger/mustang with a V6....9mm has its place but IMHO it isn’t in a 1911, with the exception of the small frame models.


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Old March 8, 2019, 09:22 PM   #72
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I have gone through periods where I had firearms that needed a wide range of calibers, .22LR, .380, 45ACP, 9mm, .38 Sp, .357 Mag, 30 Carbine, .44, and on. Over the past few years I have intentionally narrowed my needs to 9mm. There is such an incredible diversity of factory ammunition available these days, 9mm lite loads, what I would refer to as normal range ammo like Winchester White Box, then the +P, +P+, many different variations of bullet designs, seems like you can have 9mm perform in about any way needed, I personally find it simplifies life a bit and makes target shooting more enjoyable just having to keep up with the performance characteristics of the many many commercially available 9mm ammunition, settling on my personal preference of Winchester White Box, Hornady 115 gr Critical Defense, 135 Gr Critical Duty, and Corbon +P. While have been retired for 4 years now, still do an annual qual, so makes that easier as well with regards to how each type of ammo might print at 3 yards, 15 yards, 25 yards in my EMP4 CCC. Just my thoughts and prefreences.
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Old March 9, 2019, 12:15 PM   #73
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Over the past few years I have intentionally narrowed my needs to 9mm. There is such an incredible diversity of factory ammunition available these days, ... seems like you can have 9mm perform in about any way needed, I personally find it simplifies life a bit...
Yeah, but that's boring

I've got, lessee... .22 rimfire, .22 WMR, .380 ACP, 9MM, 357 Sig, .357 Mag, .40 S&W, .45 ACP and .45 (Long) Colt. I shoot more .22 rimfire and 9mm than anything else--mainly for cost. (My favourite carry is in 9mm--mainly for size, weight and round-count reasons.) The others I shoot less frequently. .22 WMR very rarely and I can't recall when I last broke out the .357 Mag wheel gun. They're each interesting in their own way.

I'm actually toying with the idea of a 10MM 1911 for woods carry
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Old March 12, 2019, 08:02 PM   #74
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FLJim,

That's cool. I would be interested in hearing about what make and model you decide on if you move forward with getting a 10mm 1911.
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Old March 13, 2019, 10:11 AM   #75
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@oldjarhead I have owned a few 1911s in 9mm over the years. Most of them have been sold off at one time or another. For me if I want a cocked and locked 9mm I choose a Browning High Power. More rounds and more reliable in 9mm than the 1911 in 9mm.

The 1911 was not built to shoot the 9mm round. The tolerances within the JMB design are too tight when chambered in 9mm. The magazines have always been problematic but the extractor also presents a lot problems for the 1911 in 9mm.

I will quote what a 1911tuner posted on another forum recently. He knows more about the 1911 then most and explains why I would not carry a 1911 in 9mm or use it in a defensive roll. There are better alternatives like the BHP.

Quote:
There are reasons that the 9mm cartridge is just wrong for the 1911 platform...the very reaons that I never owned one and never will.

The OAL is too short and the tiny rim and extractor groove require heavy modification to an extractor that was designed to work with the .45 Auto's case dimensions.

Because of the extractor groove, the tip of the extractor claw is used to place tension on the case in the bottom of the extractor groove instead of the tensioning wall bearing against the rim. A little too much tension, and you get feed problems. Back off enough for reliable feed/return to bettery, and you run into extraction and.or ejection problems. Take enough off the claw to bring the tensioning wall into contact with the rim, and it's too short to hang onto the case and bring it out of the chamber. One of the tricky things about running a cartridge with the pressure levels of the 9mm is that the extractor has to work harder to pull it clear. Add to that a very short claw, and it gets tricky.

Finally...even with a light recoil spring...the 115 grain ammunition barely generates enough recoil impetus to drive the slide and barrel backward with authority. The 124 grain stuff is better. The 147 grain offering is better still.

That delicate balance, coupled with the too short OAL is, while a 1911 may be okay for a range toy...if you get one that runs...I'd never recommend carrying one for serious purpose. They can be made to run...if the wrench understands what he's doing and why...but it tries one's patience, and patience is something that I've run short of in my old age.
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