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Old December 22, 2018, 11:38 AM   #1
hooligan1
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Flat nose, Round nose, 30-06

I'm going to test 150 grain Flat nose and Round nose bullets in my Chinese Mauser.
It loves the 150 grn spitzers from Sierra and a helping of h4831sc, with peep sights I can keep most of those in a 4" circle at 100 yds, as my eyes don't pick up all three, (sights and target) very well anymore.
Have any of you fellas tried these types of bullets in 3006, I'm hoping to use them on timber whitetails.
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Old December 22, 2018, 12:15 PM   #2
RC20
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Not sure why you would change.

Flat nose is going to have awful ballistics. RN ok, only RN are 220 that I have seen
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Old December 22, 2018, 01:35 PM   #3
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Not sure why you would change.
Flat nose is going to have awful ballistics. RN ok, only RN are 220 that I have seen
Years ago, round nose bullets were very popular. the large soft-pointed noses were touted to be superior for rapid expansion. Back then, several cartridges with round noses were common. The 6.5 Swede., .303 British, the 7x57 and 8x57 Mausers, and even 30-06. That was all before the so-called premium bullet market seemed to take over and dominate the hunting bullets. I have never been convinced that the premium bullets have any real advantage over the old round nose bullets at modest hunting ranges. As for pointed bullets being better for longer ranges, that is only a factor if you can actually hit the small ideal kill zone at those extended ranges...most who think they can...do not, and arguably would be better off shooting round nose bullets at closer distances.
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Old December 22, 2018, 01:43 PM   #4
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"...my eyes don't pick up all three..." Nobody's eyes can focus on more than one thing at a time. Focus on the front sight. Do not look at the rear sight at all. And sit the target on top of the front sight blade.
Flat point and round nose .30 calibre bullets do not work any better in the bush than a spitzer. A wee twig can deflect an RN just as fast as any other bullet.
"...It loves..." As mentioned, why reinvent the wheel. Think Rule Number One. It works, don't fix it.
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Old December 22, 2018, 02:32 PM   #5
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as my eyes don't pick up all three, (sights and target) very well anymore.
off topic, but these things will make those front sights crystal clear! Amazing..
http://www.eyepalusa.com/ or here https://www.lymanproducts.com/eyepalr.html

to be sure it takes a bit to get them positioned just right and they add another element to sight alignment, but worth it. I got tired of lining up between the two front sight posts my old eyes were seeing.
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Old December 22, 2018, 03:03 PM   #6
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I'm trying these bullets because I have 100 each, with no 30-30 to load them for, I decided to try those dudes in my 30-06.
As far as peep sight usage, I'm familiar with the science let's say.
I never said anything about brush hunting and as far as reinventing a wheel, hell I use more than one type bullet out of each of my rifles. If I had a rifle that only liked one particular bullet, it would head down the road....
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Old December 22, 2018, 03:08 PM   #7
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I have a Model of 1917 with an aperture rear sight (not the original) that does well with 180 and 220 Sierra Pro Hunter RN. Main focus should be the front sight.
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Old December 22, 2018, 03:15 PM   #8
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I have never been convinced that the premium bullets have any real advantage over the old round nose bullets at modest hunting ranges. As for pointed bullets being better for longer ranges, that is only a factor if you can actually hit the small ideal kill zone at those extended ranges...
At "normal" ranges, say under 300 yards, and on most game animals premium bullets don't offer significant advantages over standard cup and core bullets. But not all pointed bullets are premium, in fact most are not. And round nose bullets offer absolutely zero advantage with a lot of negatives, even up close.

Quote:
large soft-pointed noses were touted to be superior for rapid expansion.
They help bullets expand at lower impact speeds. They also way over expand at faster speeds. RN can be OK at 30-30 impact speeds, and the old 220 gr 30-06 was impacting at 30-30 speeds, just with a heavier bullet. Same story with heavy for caliber RN bullets in the 19th century 6.5 and 7mm loads. But a 150 gr RN at 30-06 speeds will over expand and fail at close range. If you down load them to 30-30 levels then they may be a viable option. If you can get them to shoot well. I tried the idea in my 308 with poor results.

A pointed bullet will be just as effective on game, and impact harder even at relatively close ranges. If you compare a 300 WM firing a 180 gr RN bullet to a 30-06 firing a pointed bullet with good BC's the 30-06 will surpass the 300 WM at only 75 yards and hit harder. The farther you go past 75 yards the bigger the gap in favor of 30-06. And 75 yards isn't long range by any standards. The old RN bullets served a purpose with 19th century technology, but not in the 21st century.
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Old December 22, 2018, 03:52 PM   #9
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Thanks jmr40, thats the kind of response to my question I was looking for, someone who has tried....
I'm pushing these rascals to about 2700 more or less through a 20" 2 groove 03 barrel.Im not looking to penetrate or even shoot through brush, but 50-75 yd shots should be the range I will be hunting them.
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Old December 22, 2018, 06:03 PM   #10
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At 50 to 75 yards with 30/06 power , any bullet will work fine on deer . You would not even need great accuracy . With the hundreds of wild pigs I have shot with many different calibers , I have found the round nose bullet to noticeably hit harder , and knock down better , than pointed bullets . Under 200 yards I try and stay with the rn bullet . My radar chrono says a 30/06 will not pass an 300 WM rn at 75 . Early militaries went with the rn bullet at first for the hitting power . The German military did a lot of testing , found the rn load hit harder , but went with the spitzer for the extra range and flatter trajectory .
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Old December 22, 2018, 08:53 PM   #11
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I have always used the RN bullet, I think it is the best by fare, 180gr hornady that's the one for me !!!
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Old December 22, 2018, 10:02 PM   #12
Bob Willman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. O'Heir View Post
"...my eyes don't pick up all three..." Nobody's eyes can focus on more than one thing at a time. Focus on the front sight. Do not look at the rear sight at all. And sit the target on top of the front sight blade.
Flat point and round nose .30 calibre bullets do not work any better in the bush than a spitzer. A wee twig can deflect an RN just as fast as any other bullet.
"...It loves..." As mentioned, why reinvent the wheel. Think Rule Number One. It works, don't fix it.
I also had a problem with all the sights but found a reasonable solution. Check stick-on bifocals. They are a flexible plastic available in different diopters which can be cut to size. You wet them with water and stick them on to your glasses. When dry they stay in place, can be peeled off and reused. I stick a small piece in the upper inside of my right lens where it is in the correct place to see the front sight clearly. To select the correct diopter, I went to the reading glass section of the local drug store and stood away from the display about the same distance as the front sight would be. With my glasses on I looked through different glasses from the display until the display sign looked best and then ordered that diopter stick-on from Amazon. They are about $20.00 per set.
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Old December 23, 2018, 05:22 AM   #13
cptjack
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had a 30 30 bolt with factory bullets the Winchester silver tip [flat nose ]was more accurate than rem round nose
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Old December 23, 2018, 07:51 AM   #14
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Using a bullet designed for 30/30 velocities in full power 30/06 loads may result in bullet failure(disintegration). Throttle back to starting/mid-level loads for actual hunting use.
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Old December 23, 2018, 02:32 PM   #15
reynolds357
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Quote:
I'm going to test 150 grain Flat nose and Round nose bullets in my Chinese Mauser.
It loves the 150 grn spitzers from Sierra and a helping of h4831sc, with peep sights I can keep most of those in a 4" circle at 100 yds, as my eyes don't pick up all three, (sights and target) very well anymore.
Have any of you fellas tried these types of bullets in 3006, I'm hoping to use them on timber whitetails.
I used them in ancient days. I thought advancement in Spitzer technology obsoleted them.
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Old December 23, 2018, 02:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
I'm trying these bullets because I have 100 each, with no 30-30 to load them for, I decided to try those dudes in my 30-06.
Quote:
I'm pushing these rascals to about 2700 more or less through a 20" 2 groove 03 barrel.Im not looking to penetrate or even shoot through brush, but 50-75 yd shots should be the range I will be hunting them.
I was going to make this point, glad I'm not the only one...

Quote:
Using a bullet designed for 30/30 velocities in full power 30/06 loads may result in bullet failure(disintegration). Throttle back to starting/mid-level loads for actual hunting use.
Here's the thing, its not so much a question of round or flat point, its a question of bullet construction. Most (if not all the usual commercial bullets) .30 cal 150gr flat points are made for use in the .30-30. These are bullets made to expand "properly" fired out of the usual carbines with muzzle velocities in the 2200fps range.

Running them at 2700fps is considerably faster than what they are built for. This difference doesn't matter when punching paper, but can matter punching deer or other game animals. It depends on the specific bullet construction. Running a .30-30 bullet at 2700fps might not push you past the point of controlled expansion, with THAT particular bullet, but if it doesn't, it does put you on the upper edge of that boundary.

I can tell you with certainty that running a .30-30 bullet at .300 Magnum speeds (3000fps+) does push you into the realm of varmint bullet type expansion. NOT what you want for shooting deer.
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Old December 23, 2018, 04:25 PM   #17
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Eye Pall looks interesting
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Old December 23, 2018, 05:50 PM   #18
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The 150gr RN velocity range from Hornady is 1800fps to 2500fps and they do have loads in 2500fps range for 30-06.
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Old December 24, 2018, 12:26 PM   #19
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When I spoke to one of Nosler's techs about the expansion velocity ranges of their bullets, he suggested avoiding the highest end of the impact velocity range for cup-and-core designs because flattening gets extreme enough that penetration begins to be compromised. I suspect this applies to all makes of bullets. He recommended keeping one or two hundred fps below the maximum for a bullet. It also makes broad sense that a design will give you its best combination of expansion and penetration in the middle of the design velocity range.

From that, I would be loading the .30-06 down with H4598 or some other powder that works well at lower pressure. Load so the chronograph gives you about 2500 fps at 15 feet from the muzzle. With H4895 it should be about 37.6 grains with the 3.300 COL produced by lining the cannelure up with the neck. At 50 yards the 150 RN will lose about 200 fps to impact at 2300 fps and at 75 yards, it will lose another 120 fps to impact at about 2180 fps. A comfortable middle range and still 100 fps faster than a commercial 30-30 load with the same bullet.
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Old December 25, 2018, 10:37 AM   #20
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I loaded some deer loads up for a 13 year old niece using her father's Remington 76 .30-06.

The load was a 150 Hornady RN over H4895 at around 1900 fps. She killed two deer with that load between 50 and 100 yards. Both were one shot kills with good expansion on the one bullet that was recovered.
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Old December 25, 2018, 03:30 PM   #21
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Hooligan, to answer your question yes, you can do it. However keep the velocity down. Many long years ago I hunted the rain forest of extreme northwest California just out of the town of Rockport. Twenty-five to 35 yard shots were the rule and 50 yard long range. The only exceptions were the clear cuts. My rifle was seriously bubba'd 03 Springfield with an 18" barrel. Loads we used were the 150 (for a while) flat nose and 170 gr. flat nose bullets for the 30-30. Usually Sierra brand. I learned early on that they could be loaded down and would work beautifully, usually make one shot DRT kills on the spot. Sorry, no chronographs back in the late 1950's early 1960's but the bullets were shot in the 2400 to maybe 2500 FPS range tops. Deer if allowed to run off in that thick stuff after being shot were almost always lost.

Sad to say though, it seems bullet makers are dropping round nose bullets faster than greased lightning. One of my all time favorites is the 170 gr Sierra RN in 7MM. Sierra dropped it so far back that I don't remember when, Probably close to 25 years. Hornady I believe had dropped the 160 gr. 6.5 MM and 175 gr. 7MM bullets as well. Dunno if Sierra still sells the 180 gr. RN but that bullet was hell on some big Mule Deer in Nevada back in the mid 70's. I pushed those to an estimate 2600 FPS from a .308 and it smacked deer down hard.

If your bullets are for the 30-30, keep your velocity down to 2400 FPS and they'll work to 200 yards easy. I did catch a few of those California deer out in the clear cuts every once in a while.
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