The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 5, 2018, 12:14 PM   #1
cdoc42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 712
Speer 200gr .45 SWC

I have a few hundred grey-colored Speer 200gr SWC.45 caliber, I assume, lead bullets that I believe are designated to be used in the .45 APC. I wonder if they can be also used in the .45 Colt revolver. The bullets have a crimp groove, but no lube in it nor is there any lube anywhere.

Are there any cautions to be observed because of the lack of lube? Can they be used in the Colt .45?
cdoc42 is offline  
Old December 5, 2018, 12:17 PM   #2
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,238
They are swaged lead, very soft with a thin wax lube. Can be used in 45 Colt if the diameter is right. Keep it to light loads
Hammerhead is offline  
Old December 5, 2018, 01:28 PM   #3
gwpercle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2012
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 961
Don't push them too fast , designed for 45 Colt and 45 Auto Rim, not 45 acp SWC's usually have trouble feeding in 45 acp....unless shot in a revolver.
They are a soft swaged alloy and the lube is just a thin film of wax.
Giving them a coat of Lee Liquid Alox or something similar will help if they lead your barrel.

I have a 45 acp revolver that shoots them well at moderate velocities .

Gary
gwpercle is offline  
Old December 5, 2018, 05:32 PM   #4
Charlie_98
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2011
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 975
Quote:
not 45 acp SWC's usually have trouble feeding in 45 acp
I've been running some Berry's 200grn plated SWC's in my 4" Kimbers... they work fine. Granted, those are plated, but I don't see how it would make that big of a difference. Just depends on the firearm...

Quote:
Are there any cautions to be observed because of the lack of lube? Can they be used in the Colt .45?
As the others have mentioned... just don't overdrive them. What are you planning on shooting them in?
__________________
Dennis

Wherever you go, there you are...
Charlie_98 is offline  
Old December 5, 2018, 06:13 PM   #5
Bimus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 15, 2018
Location: Farmington NM
Posts: 121
In the Speer manual # 14 page 980 45 Colt 200gr 0.452

Unique start 8.0 gr FPS 896 max 9.5gr 1061 FPS
Bimus is offline  
Old December 5, 2018, 07:23 PM   #6
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,238
BTW, I don't think that's a crimp groove, I guess it's a pseudo lube groove. For light loads a light roll crimp into the side of the bullet should be fine.

My Speer #10 recommends seating them deep and roll crimping over the shoulder. I'm sure that's just the ticket for full power stuff, but I never liked that method with SWC's.

For target loads and swaged bullets of most brands and calibers I just lightly roll or profile crimp into the side of the bullet where I want it.
Hammerhead is offline  
Old December 5, 2018, 07:37 PM   #7
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,238
I'll second the alox idea if you get leading.

A 45/45/10 mix of Lee liquid alox/Johnson's paste wax/mineral spirits is a well proven one, my buddy uses it, smells great. Not as sticky as straight alox.
Hammerhead is offline  
Old December 5, 2018, 08:29 PM   #8
cdoc42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 712
Thanks, Guys, your responses have been helpful. What is the procedure for coating them with LL Alox or the triple mixture suggested by Hammerhead? Brush it on? Immersion in a jar of product and let stand on the base til dry?

Charlie98, my plan is to use them in my Colt 45 revolver for target practice.
cdoc42 is offline  
Old December 6, 2018, 11:09 AM   #9
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,238
I put 20 or 30 bullets in a small plastic container and drizzle a small amount of alox on them and swirl them around to coat them, then I put them base down on cotton cloth to dry. The cotton wicks away excess alox and makes for a little cleaner bullet. Takes up to 24 hours to dry.

If you don't have paste wax, you can just thin the alox with mineral spirits. Straight alox can be a bit thick and tacky. Careful, tacky bullets like to grab dirt and sneak it into your loads. Handle and store carefully.

The paste wax mix is better. They dry quicker and are less tacky.
Hammerhead is offline  
Old December 6, 2018, 11:47 AM   #10
Charlie_98
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2011
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 975
Quote:
Charlie98, my plan is to use them in my Colt 45 revolver for target practice.
Although you probably know this already... I would load up a small test batch first. I've found .45 Colt revolvers in particular (largely Ruger pistols) have crazy variations in cylinder throat diameter (even in the same pistol!) and bore diameters. I'd hate to see you load up a pile of them only to find they pattern like a shotgun. Been there, done that.
__________________
Dennis

Wherever you go, there you are...
Charlie_98 is offline  
Old December 6, 2018, 12:30 PM   #11
cdoc42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 712
Thanks, Charlie98, that's exactly what I plan to do. I'm also experimenting with Hornady 250gr XTP since 8.0 gr of Unique gave me a group I need to repeat. In that regard I checked Lyman's 50th Anniversary book and found Acc#5, 10.0gr gave 777ps and was the most accurate in the list.

Since velocity is the only guide I have in this respect, I figured I'd use Unique and 2400 (because I have them) at the same velocity to see how close I come to accuracy. Unique 7.8gr = 755 fps and 2400 14.8gr = 755 fps.

Although I know the weight of the charge and velocity are not linear, I made a simple ratio anyway and found Unique 8.0gr might increase velocity to about 774fps and 15.2gr of 2400 might give me 775fps. If I have time I can chronograph them to see how close this really is, especially if either or both are accurate.

That's what I find is fun about reloading, especially if you don't blow yourself up.

PS: Thanks, Hammerhead for the Alox prep advice. I'll give it a try.
cdoc42 is offline  
Old December 6, 2018, 07:32 PM   #12
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 19,629
Quote:
Don't push them too fast , designed for 45 Colt and 45 Auto Rim, not 45 acp SWC's usually have trouble feeding in 45 acp....unless shot in a revolver.
You can call Speer to be sure, but I don't think those bullets were designed for anything but .45ACP. They've been making them for that, for generations. SWC profile, with the "melted" (rounded edges) just for feeding in semi autos.

Swaged lead (so pretty soft, but not pure lead soft), they are coated at the factory with a dry film lube. No other lube is (normally) needed,

The knurled "groove" is a crimp groove, put there for those who are using a roll crimp, or you can simply seat them deep and crimp over the forward shoulder of the bullet.

If you have the original box, it has the stock # on it, call Speer, they can tell you everything you want to know about that bullet and its use in semis and revolvers.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is online now  
Old December 7, 2018, 11:39 AM   #13
Charlie_98
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2011
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 975
I think my standard load was 8.0grn Unique under a ~250grn bullet. I don't have my load data with me, I don't recall the velocity. I had the cylinder reamed on my Vaquero, so I'm hoping to get better accuracy from it, now, so I may have to adjust the load a bit.
__________________
Dennis

Wherever you go, there you are...
Charlie_98 is offline  
Old December 7, 2018, 02:22 PM   #14
cdoc42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 712
I emailed Speer and got this reply about their 200gr SWC:

"These bullets can be used in either 45 Auto or 45 Colt as there is load data for both on the Speer website. With that these bullets have a proprietary lube on them already so it is not necessary to lube them or coat them further. We would not recommend pushing these much beyond a 1000 fps or leading can occur."

BTW, Hammerhead, I just finished coating 24 "All American Arms" "hard cast" 200gr .45 Cal bullets. I got them several million years ago at a gun show. They already have a lube ring but my process melted that anyway. I couldn't get Lee Liquid Alox at the local Cablea's store- just the solid stick of Alox.

It melts at 130 degrees so I used a food measuring scale and weighed out 11.25Gm of Alox, 11.25Gm of Johnson's Paste Wax and 2.5Gm of Mineral Spirits; that equals 45%-45%-10% as you suggested. I melted the Alox in a small cast iron fry pan and added the wax after the Alox melted. When both were liquid I added the mineral spirits and stirred all components. I added the bullets and stirred around, then put base down on wax paper. The remainder of the liquid mixture solidified and all the bullets coated nicely, with the lube groove in the AAA bullets filling as well.

Last edited by cdoc42; December 7, 2018 at 02:31 PM.
cdoc42 is offline  
Old December 8, 2018, 10:25 AM   #15
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,238
Nice!
Never used the solid stuff.

When I shot lead exclusively I would 'butter the bore' in my single shot carbine with the mix. Applied wet, let it dry, buffed the bore with a dry patch. (wax on, wax off) I could shoot indefinitely with the pre-lubed barrel, no leading, no fouling. The bore stayed shiny. Cleaned easily with just mineral spirits. Sure didn't hurt accuracy. Not recommended with full power ammo.
Hammerhead is offline  
Old December 9, 2018, 01:01 PM   #16
cdoc42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 712
HH, that's interesting. Did you ever clean with routine agents to see if the mineral spirits missed anything? Do you "butter the bore" again after cleaning?

That procedure will enable me to use the semi-solidified remains of the mixture I made. It reminds me of the consistency of bacon grease my Mom kept in the refrigerator in a little jar for future frying use.
cdoc42 is offline  
Old December 10, 2018, 03:18 PM   #17
Hammerhead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,238
No need to clean with anything else when I shot alox bullets in the alox bore. No leading at all. The mineral spirits just removed the alox and any carbon fouling.

Never use jacketed bullets in a coated bore and I stay at least 10% below max for my lead loads. Excess alox must be removed from the bore before shooting. It should look like nothing is there.

This process worked well in my 357 Handi rifle with soft swaged bullets. Your results may vary.
Hammerhead is offline  
Old December 13, 2018, 07:36 PM   #18
cdoc42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 712
I had an interesting afternoon. I shot 6 rounds each at 10 yards from a bench rest with my Thomas .45 Colt after lubing the Speer and All American Arms 200gr bullets with the Alox/Wax/mineral Spirits combo.

I differed from HH above in that I also shot Hornady 250gr XTP in the group, not just lead bullets.

All 6 shots were in 4" circle at 10 yards with Hornady XTP 250gr with Unique 8.0 gr.

5 shots were at 1"o'clock with a 1" inch group with 250gr XTP and 15.2gr of 2400

5 shots were at 3 to 4 o'clock with a 2-1/4 group with 6.4gr of Titegroup and 200gr AAA lubed bullets

Now I must confess this is new to me. I have 76 year old eyes with a resolving macular hole right eye (central vision loss) using iron sights with a "V" rear sight and a BIG front stem to line up. I can still shoot a 0.3" group (6mm PPC) and 1.0" group with 6.5mm Creedmoor but I need at least 9 power to see the 3/4" dot target. So handgunning with iron sights is a bit frustrating.
cdoc42 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10343 seconds with 8 queries