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Old April 17, 2016, 11:07 AM   #26
Mannlicher
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used to always carry a BUG, but now that I think of it, have not done so in years,
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Old April 23, 2016, 09:52 AM   #27
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Usually a Sig P938.
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Old April 26, 2016, 11:27 PM   #28
Deja vu
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Primary: S&W 627 (8 Shot 357 magnum)

Back Up: NAA 22 short. (5 shot 22 short) so small I can conceal it when walking around in a thong!
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Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull.

all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well...
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Old April 27, 2016, 02:48 PM   #29
Tactical Jackalope
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so small I can conceal it when walking around in a thong!
Pics or it didn't happen.


Update: I'm still carrying the Model 60 as my back up gun.
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Old May 9, 2016, 10:09 PM   #30
Fade2Grey
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If you can tolerate the extra expense, discomfort and necessary training, I don't see a reason not to carry a BUG.

Lots of things can go wrong with your primary. Catastrophic malfunctions, dropping or otherwise losing positive control of it. Things that can be quickly remedied by a BUG.

Other advantages include arming another, an element of surprise, and additional firepower.

I believe it to be a good idea to practice with your BUG as you do your primary; drawing from its position, being familiar with its manual of arms, knowing its capabilities and limitations.

It can be useful to have your BUG share the same ammunition source and caliber as your primary. A glock 19 and 26, for example. It is logistically easier, only having to buy one type of ammo and magazine. Practice and familiarity are similar.

There are scenarios that it can be beneficial to have a BUG. They are less likely than only having one, but needing a gun to begin with can be unlikely.

I don't currently carry a BUG, only because I can't afford one right now. I will as soon as I can. My primary is an H&K VP9. I'm hoping they come out with a subcompact version to share magazines. I open carry the primary, and have toyed with the idea of concealing the BUG.
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Last edited by Fade2Grey; May 9, 2016 at 10:13 PM. Reason: Forgot to mention if I do carry a BUG or not.
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Old May 10, 2016, 01:48 AM   #31
Sequins
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My BUG just went from a single action SBH to a DA/SA Redhawk.

I carry my BUG in an off body carry satchel, my thinking being that if I need a second gun in a grapple I just need to grapple harder, and that if I'm involved in a terrorist attack or mass shooting event that a lower capacity smaller gun is no backup at all.

I carry the best gun I can all the time and an even better one in my bag, and I trust .44mag against soft body armor.
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Old May 10, 2016, 07:26 PM   #32
RP2012
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I don't carry a BUG, but it is not a bad idea I suppose
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Old May 11, 2016, 09:49 AM   #33
Lohman446
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I do not

I cannot envision a scenario where I was forced to deploy my primary weapon, my spare ammo, and then switch to a back-up weapon that ends well. If things have gone that wrong I have such little chance of escaping without unacceptable losses that having a back-up weapon serves virtually no purpose.

Now those who are a in a position where the first option is not retreat have entirely different scenarios that are plausible. I do not.
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Old May 11, 2016, 02:45 PM   #34
Tactical Jackalope
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I cannot envision a scenario where I was forced to deploy my primary weapon, my spare ammo, and then switch to a back-up weapon that ends well. If things have gone that wrong I have such little chance of escaping without unacceptable losses that having a back-up weapon serves virtually no purpose.
Just because you can't envision it, doesn't mean it could never happen.

Why would having "little chance of escaping" matter if you were in that type of scenario? You'd just lie down and accept your fate or something?

Also, I mainly carry a back-up in the event I may need to arm someone else. Which I'd done several times already.

The Achilles heel of a semi-automatic handgun are the magazines (spare mags).

A type three malfunction could get nasty. Really nasty. A second gun is a good quick remedy just in case you're having trouble clearing it.

My back-up gun can never "go out of battery" in that it is a J-frame revolver. If the fight is close, I can jam my pistol into the attacker and let rounds off without needing to worry about hearing a *click* with my Glock pistol, which would require two hands to reset that trigger.


Many benefits to it, none really against it. Aside from attire and comfort. If someone doesn't want to carry a back-up gun, that's fine. But they're more pluses to it than not.
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Old May 11, 2016, 03:12 PM   #35
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Its a risk to reward scenario for me. There is only an extremely remote chance of ever actually having to deploy my primary concealed carry weapon. However I have decided, in my mind, that there are scenarios where I would not only successfully deploy by carry weapon but I would also alter the situation in a way that would result in a favorable outcome. This is adequate reward to deal with the issues associated with carrying a concealed weapon.

The risk to carrying a second weapon is slightly higher than what you are indicated. I have a limited time to train with my primary weapon. I am not so proficient with it that additional training time would not result in additional proficiency. Thus any time I would devote to training with a back-up weapon would actually take away from my proficiency (or future proficiency) with a primary weapon.

Further virtually all of my retention training and practice involve a firearm carried strong side. I'm very competent at assuring my strong side firearm stays where it is supposed to be. Arm placement in crowds or when passing people has become second nature. This would not be so with a BUG.

If my primary weapon fails I cannot envision a scenario where I am unable to remedy the failure BUT can manage to draw and employ my back-up weapon. In that case I am already likely resorting to tactics that do not require a gun - even if they are desperate.

I don't have the training or ability to stare down and overcome remarkable odds. Two or three determined individuals are likely to overcome what defenses I can offer. Having a second gun is not going to remedy that.

Think of the things that have gone wrong:

1) I have failed to assess and remove myself and family from the situation
2) At the first sign of trouble I have attempted to and failed to retreat - I am now in a position where safe retreat is not possible
3) I have failed to appease my attackers demands with any material goods they think I have
4) My attackers are actively engaged in violent aggression
5) I have failed to dissuade my attackers with presentation and subsequent use of a firearm. Further this has also not remedied my inability to retreat

At this time my attackers are both formidable and committed. For my gun to fail in a way I could not remedy would require contact distance like coming out of battery as you suggest (I have never had a non-induced failure on my firearm - failure induced my including snap caps in the magazine for practice). My hopes have gone down to a lack of determination by my attacker or an ability to physically overcome him. I just do not see where I would be able to draw and employ a back-up firearm at this point. I do see where practicing with a back-up firearm rather than my primary weapon could result in this situation arising more rapidly.
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Old May 11, 2016, 08:06 PM   #36
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No....1911 9mm. If that doesn't handle it. Im screwed anyway.
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Old May 11, 2016, 09:14 PM   #37
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without needing to worry about hearing a *click* with my Glock pistol, which would require two hands to reset that trigger.
Uhhhh....not how that works. If the gun is out of battery the trigger is disconnected and you wont get a click. As the gun goes into battery you can pull the trigger and it will fire.

Even if somehow the trigger WAS dead in that scenario, it does not require 2 hands to fix.
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Old May 12, 2016, 09:50 AM   #38
Glenn E. Meyer
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Folks, while you may be interested in thongs, we are not. Certainly not pictures of such.

I agree that the NAA 22s can be hidden in even unmentionable places but let's get back on topic.
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Old May 12, 2016, 09:54 AM   #39
Tactical Jackalope
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Its a risk to reward scenario for me. There is only an extremely remote chance of ever actually having to deploy my primary concealed carry weapon. However I have decided, in my mind, that there are scenarios where I would not only successfully deploy by carry weapon but I would also alter the situation in a way that would result in a favorable outcome. This is adequate reward to deal with the issues associated with carrying a concealed weapon.

The risk to carrying a second weapon is slightly higher than what you are indicated. I have a limited time to train with my primary weapon. I am not so proficient with it that additional training time would not result in additional proficiency. Thus any time I would devote to training with a back-up weapon would actually take away from my proficiency (or future proficiency) with a primary weapon.

Further virtually all of my retention training and practice involve a firearm carried strong side. I'm very competent at assuring my strong side firearm stays where it is supposed to be. Arm placement in crowds or when passing people has become second nature. This would not be so with a BUG.

If my primary weapon fails I cannot envision a scenario where I am unable to remedy the failure BUT can manage to draw and employ my back-up weapon. In that case I am already likely resorting to tactics that do not require a gun - even if they are desperate.

I don't have the training or ability to stare down and overcome remarkable odds. Two or three determined individuals are likely to overcome what defenses I can offer. Having a second gun is not going to remedy that.

Think of the things that have gone wrong:

1) I have failed to assess and remove myself and family from the situation
2) At the first sign of trouble I have attempted to and failed to retreat - I am now in a position where safe retreat is not possible
3) I have failed to appease my attackers demands with any material goods they think I have
4) My attackers are actively engaged in violent aggression
5) I have failed to dissuade my attackers with presentation and subsequent use of a firearm. Further this has also not remedied my inability to retreat

At this time my attackers are both formidable and committed. For my gun to fail in a way I could not remedy would require contact distance like coming out of battery as you suggest (I have never had a non-induced failure on my firearm - failure induced my including snap caps in the magazine for practice). My hopes have gone down to a lack of determination by my attacker or an ability to physically overcome him. I just do not see where I would be able to draw and employ a back-up firearm at this point. I do see where practicing with a back-up firearm rather than my primary weapon could result in this situation arising more rapidly.

That's fair, very fair. Gave me a few things to consider and some things to possibly work on. Thank you for that.
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Old May 12, 2016, 10:56 AM   #40
JERRYS.
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it is probably semantics but it must be pointed out that those who carry for a living differentiate between a back up gun (BUG) and a second gun.

back up gun: J frame 38, G26 et cetera.....

second gun: Seecamp, NAA mini revolvers, derringers....

and again, some states do not allow the carrying of more than one gun. check your state laws on such carry.
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Old May 12, 2016, 02:11 PM   #41
shafter
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By all means carry a second gun if you like.

However, I think it's funny how people devote so much time and thought towards the self defense aspect of self preservation and yet don't give a second thought to poor diet and no exercise. No good surviving a gunfight just die of a heart attack the following week.
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Old May 12, 2016, 02:46 PM   #42
JERRYS.
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By all means carry a second gun if you like.

However, I think it's funny how people devote so much time and thought towards the self defense aspect of self preservation and yet don't give a second thought to poor diet and no exercise. No good surviving a gunfight just die of a heart attack the following week.
yes, a lot of fat people carry guns for self defense. but if they kick the bucket from a heart disease et cetera.... at least it was self induced and on their own terms, instead of at the hands of a criminal.
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Old May 12, 2016, 04:52 PM   #43
Glenn E. Meyer
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Let's stay on topic. Discussing a bug is for the specific risks involved in gun fights.

It's not to discuss heart disease or how having kids drives you crazy or why you should have a cat.
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Old May 12, 2016, 06:06 PM   #44
Footslogger
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I do not carry a BUG.

I have never put the effort into training with two guns.

I my mind i would have to train extensively ,especially for retention of two handguns.
For now i will remain a one gun guy.
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Old May 12, 2016, 06:45 PM   #45
JERRYS.
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Footslogger, many people that carry a BUG or second gun do so in a manner that weapon retention is "almost" not needed. I say this because the mode of carry for such guns makes them slow to access (comparatively).
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Old May 14, 2016, 03:21 PM   #46
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I always, always carry at least two BUGs. The way I see it, three guns is the bare minimum any man should carry.
That's the funniest thing I've read in ages!
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Old May 16, 2016, 09:48 PM   #47
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I fail to see what is so funny. I'm speaking about life and death tactics here. So please, enlighten me, what is so funny?
The notion that three guns is "the bare minimum" is laughable. How many is optimum? I think that a case can be made for a backup. Several makes no sense. Please enlighten me regarding the tactical necessity and efficacy of a civilian carrying four or more guns for self-defense.
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Old May 17, 2016, 07:38 PM   #48
Fade2Grey
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I don't carry 3 guns, but to speak towards efficacy, for some, a NY reload is faster.

I, personally, have yet to master manipulating one manual of arms, its retention, much less three.

Whether or not it is necessary, I'm assuming, is futile to discuss. Ya never know.

I have spent a lot of money over the years trying to find a comfortable carry method for just one gun. However, if one could stand the financial, training, and discomfort burden, what downside could there be, tactically speaking.
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Old May 18, 2016, 09:42 PM   #49
Win73
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I don't carry a BUG. I just carry two guns, an S&W Model 637 Airweight .38 snub in a pocket holster in my right front pocket and a Ruger LCP .380 in what looks like a cell phone case on my belt on my left side. That gives me a total of 13 shots and the ability to draw a gun with either hand. Also I can draw the .380 while seated and belted in my car.
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Old May 18, 2016, 10:53 PM   #50
Fade2Grey
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I don't carry a BUG. I just carry two guns
I like that, mind if I use it?
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