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Old November 8, 2009, 08:38 AM   #26
Foxbat
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If you load a lot, then one feature that will stop this argument is the Dillon's roller handle! After it all those balls look and feel silly.

Seriously though, one really can't assess the two systems without having used both for a while. The promo material is nice, but nothing beats long term experience.

For a number of years I have ran the two side by side. I quickly realized that I liked Dillon better, but the thought of getting the second one seemed somewhat extravagant at the time. But then one day I bit the bullet and bought that second Dillon... sold the Hornady and... used the money to buy the third Dillon... then the forth...

Sufficient to say I have never missed the Hornady.

But let the argument go on... it will never stop. You can definitely load and be happy with either one of the big three - I would not consider Lee a worthy long term alternative... I had three of them at one point... indeed cheap junk.
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Old November 8, 2009, 11:24 AM   #27
Bronco4me
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Blue or red..both very fine presses and you would have been happy either way. Congrats on your new rig!
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Old November 8, 2009, 11:42 AM   #28
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I also researched extensively as Miykael did and ordered a Hornady LNL AP for myself which should be here in a couple of days. I suppose there were a couple of items which swayed me toward the Hornady, the die quick-change feature and the nifty optional micrometer measuring inserts IMO are major pluses (but I do think the micrometer inserts should be standard equipment). And the thousand-free-bullet offer isn't bad, either.

Yeah, it does seem like people have loyalties to reloading equipment brands as they do with their automobiles, which can make it a *real* challenge to get objective analyses on reloading equipment- such is life.
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Old November 8, 2009, 05:11 PM   #29
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Farmland
You are all over the place with your seemingly psychobabble responses that “do not compute”. You state unequivocally
Quote:
Farmland wrote:
Accurate concentric ammo - big win for the Dillon 650 period.
Then, when you are challenged on this, you state
Quote:
Farmland wrote:
fact is the Dillon 650 can be made better in this regard than the Hornady.
You imply that all you have to do is get the Whidden system. More dollar$ for exhorbidenly priced dillon acce$$orie$
Quote:
Farmland wrote:
In any event this addition will make the Dillon 650 the clear winner
When the shortcomings of the Widden system are pointed out, the best you could do was
Quote:
Farmland wrote:
Though once a month I do get a nice book in the mail from the Blue company.
Sometimes it is better to be obscene and not heard.

Your circumcised credibility is crapper circumspect. {John Crapper invented the flush toilet, and that is why a toilet is referred to as a “John” or a “crapper.”}

Foxbat: Dillon was making several progressive models long before the Pro 7 or the 650. The Projector was never a serious contender.
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Old November 8, 2009, 06:00 PM   #30
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Quote:
Dillon was making several progressive models long before the Pro 7
Would you be so kind and list those several progressive Dillon models of that time? Let's not bother with the 1000 due to its price range. I presume you mean the 450, as the 300 was not produced at that time. IIRC, the 450 was the only machine they were making at that time.

Last edited by Foxbat; November 8, 2009 at 06:06 PM.
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Old November 8, 2009, 06:20 PM   #31
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Quote:
For a number of years I have ran the two side by side. I quickly realized that I liked Dillon better, but the thought of getting the second one seemed somewhat extravagant at the time. But then one day I bit the bullet and bought that second Dillon... sold the Hornady and... used the money to buy the third Dillon... then the forth...
In the early days, I loaded some pistol with a single stage RCBS. Wasn't long before I got the Dillon 550B (15 years ago). I've never looked back. Doesn't look like it's going to wear out. Parts are replaced quickly with a phone call under warranty.

I too, went to the roller handle to make things easier.

I also went to the added expense of having separate, quick changing, tool heads for each caliber complete with powder measure and dies all adjusted and ready to go.

I took a tip from Brian Enos and started lubing all my cases with Hornady One Shot. Non greasy, you don't have to wipe it off, and makes loading so much easier--even with Carbide dies.

If you want a true professional's evaluation of different loading machines:

For Dillon loading equipment:
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=78

For non Dillon loading equipment

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=76
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Old November 8, 2009, 06:57 PM   #32
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Your solid red what can I say. It is simply the W-System makes the Dillon650 better than the Hornady. I guess only your measurements the way you want to do them and write about every day are the only correct ones.

However you did quote me correctly that must hurt to say the Dillon can out perform the Hornady.

Now I was waiting for the extra cost BS. How has not added something or went the extra mile to make better ammo. It isn't a price issue! It is the quality and if you are saying a stock Hornady is all that you need that I know you are wrong and blind to the color red.

Even the Red can be made a better loader. My beef with the Red press is they took too many short cuts and skipped over the extras that would make the Hornady a great press.

So I will say it even though I own it. Hornady is sold by price abd incentives because people know which machine is better. Those are the only two selling facts for the Hornady. I should know I own and use both. However this stategy does sell the Hornady and some who are not aware of the short cuts call in value for the dollar. If they really wanted that then the Lee would have been the first choice.
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Old November 8, 2009, 09:27 PM   #33
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Once again, Farmland, YOU'RE DEAD WRONG REGARDING THIS THREAD!

Quote:
Your solid red what can I say. It is simply the W-System makes the Dillon650 better than the Hornady. I guess only your measurements the way you want to do them and write about every day are the only correct ones.
However you did quote me correctly that must hurt to say the Dillon can out perform the Hornady.
Now I was waiting for the extra cost BS. How has not added something or went the extra mile to make better ammo. It isn't a price issue! It is the quality and if you are saying a stock Hornady is all that you need that I know you are wrong and blind to the color red.
How much clearer can the OP and I make this? The 650 is out of the budget described. Even if so, you're adding more parts to it to make it better. Hint, more money. You're statements are invalid. You might as well say the Honda Civic is faster than a Corvette. This may be true....after spending extra money on it to claim so called "bragging rights".

Reread the OP and start comparing apples to apples. One may be bleeding Red from a paper cut, but you're gushing Blue from an Aortal artery...
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Old November 8, 2009, 09:31 PM   #34
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Farmland,

So, you dismiss the free Hornady bullets as a useless marketing gimmick, but you list the monthly "catalog" with a few pretty pictures as an advantage for the Dillon?

Read up a little; it turns out the blue roller handle can easily be put on an LNL AP if you so desire.

Andy
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Old November 8, 2009, 10:15 PM   #35
Farmland
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Actually tuttle 8 as a moderator you really should read prior to making comments - no disrespect intended.

Here is what I told him in my first post in this thread.

With the budget you have then I probably would say the Hornady, I like it a little better than the 550.

However if you want to say I am dead wrong with that statement I'm cool with it.

My main reason I hung onto this thread was that I like both and it always is Dillon that takes it on the chin from the red people.

So now we go back to the bullets. Hey I liked my free bullets but they are all in the berm now, so they are gone. I certainly would NEVER, NEVER by anything based on a free expendable give away. I just don't buy that way though I love to sell that way anytime I can find a sucker. It moves my product pretty fast.

So what we have is one person that has both a Hornady and a Dillon (650) her favors the 650 after personal use and recommends the Hornady over the 550b. But I'm bleeding blue and well I'm use to Shoney because of age and experience he knows better or at least that is what he tells me. However i do like him and except for his anti Dillon chatter he does give some good information. I didn't expect a moderator to get as one sides though.
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Old November 8, 2009, 11:11 PM   #36
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I have an RCBS Pro-2000. I bought it years ago after researching it along with Dillon 550/650 and Hornady L-n-L.

I load several different calibers and both RCBS and Hornady were cheaper and easier than Dillon to change caliber. With RCBS all you need to purchase are a die plate, a shell plate, and dies.

At the time the Dillon powder dispenser was not as easy to adjust for different loads compared to the RCBS micrometer powder dispenser. This may have changed since.

I haven't had any problems with my Pro-2000. It's hummed right along without any hiccups. I load both handgun and rifle cartridges with it.

Good luck with your decision!
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Old November 9, 2009, 01:12 AM   #37
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I think it’s appropriate to reprint a portion of a post from THR October 2008 on the subject of Blue Coolaid.
Quote:
"dillon takes Tidy Bowl and repackages it with lots of road apples mixed in. That’s done to add a swaggering no horse sense attitude with a canter to the step. But when mixed with the red, those horse patutes make whatever it touches turn to a doggieduuu brown."
Remind you of anyone FarmerBrown???
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Old November 9, 2009, 12:13 PM   #38
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Now that the discussion has been reduced to the lowest level... can I again ask for the list of "several" progressive models Dillon was making in 1984?
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Old November 9, 2009, 12:54 PM   #39
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I gotta be honest with you. I never imagined people would get SOOO riled up about which press was better and what color was the ONLY color. As far as I'm concerned...if it works and your happy with it then RIGHT ON! Let's make some bullets and be happy that we can. I know I know...I'm the newb and what do I know??? But...I read alot, lurk a bit and try and keep an open mind. Congrats on your new press...Have fun and be safe
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Old November 9, 2009, 01:25 PM   #40
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Quote:
I gotta be honest with you. I never imagined people would get SOOO riled up about which press was better and what color was the ONLY color.
It's because those Dillion guys put LSD all over the outside of each press before they ship it, causing insanity the user shortly thereafter. The reason the Dillion folks are so loyal is because they get high each time they touch the press.
And for the record Dillion people don't "Drink the blue kool-aid" They simple lick the press to get a little LSD off it from time to time.

Now the mods can close this thread.
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Old November 9, 2009, 02:29 PM   #41
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All true, plus the Dillons have that ability to multiply... like wild fire!
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Old November 9, 2009, 02:30 PM   #42
Foxbat
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They never stop!

Will it ever end?
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Old November 9, 2009, 06:38 PM   #43
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It just kills me how the Dillion guys end up buying multiple machines since they are such a pain to change over from caliber to caliber.

Takes me a maximum of five minutes to change from any caliber setup to another, maximum. I can change from .38 Super to .40S&W in like 2 minutes, on a slow day. I can't see the usefulness of having all those presses when I can change over so quickly and easily.

Oh well, you Dillion guys are all rich with money to burn I guess.
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Old November 9, 2009, 06:53 PM   #44
freonr22
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I am a newb reloader, and bought the Hornady lnl. Then I got the case feeder. What a great addition. also re the handle, I have seen on ebay they make a roller handle. maybe someday ill get one. have fun guys
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Old November 9, 2009, 06:54 PM   #45
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I'm not sure this thread is going anywhere .... but in my opinion, the Dillon 650 is a little better loader than the Hornady LNL .......but everybody should buy what they think is the best machine that meets their needs. For me that was a Dillon 650 with a case feeder....

I don't know why this turns into a cost contest - a few hundred bucks over the life of a loader is petty cash.

I currently load 7 handgun calibers / and changing over between calibers isn't a speed contest. Its a chance to clean and lube the loader / check everything. When I load one caliber, I usually run a case of bullets at least ( so between 2,000 and 3,500 bullets ) or 50 - 75 boxes. So how long it takes to break the press down, check everything, isn't an issue.

I only have one metallic loader / don't see a reason for more. For what its worth, I'd buy the Dillon 650 with the case feeder again ( mine is about 5 yrs old I think ). When I got back into metallic loading - I was able to test Hornady, RCBS and Dillon. I don't think any of them are bad machines / but to me, the deal breaker, is buy one with a "powder check" die on it. I'm not saying you can't load good ammo without it / but since I have grandkids starting to do some loading ....a little extra safety isn't a bad thing.
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Old November 9, 2009, 08:26 PM   #46
Shane Tuttle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmland
I didn't expect a moderator to get as one sides though.
Don't mean to burst your bubble, but Staff members are actually allowed to post their opinions, too.

Quote:
Actually tuttle 8 as a moderator you really should read prior to making comments - no disrespect intended.
I DID read your post. It was a mere mention of the favor of Hornady over the 550. That's fine and dandy....and NOT because of the position you take.

The whole debacle of the 650 is where your comments are completely invalid. It's utterly and completely null and void per the original poster's guidelines. It's off-topic at best, trolling at worst. Now, everyone, let's get one thing clear....

It isn't who's a red, green, blue, yellow, orange, pink bleeder. My blood is boiling because the OP specifically stated his budget and many, many posts have been made for presses that are out of his/her range. It doesn't do ANY GOOD for a member trying to find out what's a good firearm to buy on a $500 budget only to find over half of the contributions on his thread is chanting Wilson Combat. On top of that, there's more "wheat to separate from the chaff" empty content posts to filter through.

I CLEARLY stated this in my previous post. I have no idea how to make it more simple to comprehend....I really don't.
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Old November 9, 2009, 09:07 PM   #47
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Quote:
Takes me a maximum of five minutes to change from any caliber setup to another, maximum.
So? I can do it faster. Is that your biggest concern? To me it is not. I know I can change Dillon faster than Hornady or Lee... but like I said, this was not an issue. I value the way it operates.

Ah... yes... it also looks whole lot cooler than the rest!
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Old November 10, 2009, 07:14 AM   #48
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Well, I'm still not entirely sure what the best choice is but I think for the money, the Hornady is the better value. The 650 seems to be a substantially better unit than the 550 and perhaps the Hornady, but the price is higher than I am willing to pay. And it looks like I'd need to add accessories to the 650 to optimize it, hence adding to the cost.

Thanks for all the input, I'm still waffling but hopefully I'll make a decision in a few days.
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Old November 10, 2009, 09:32 AM   #49
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Not to keep kicking the dead horse... you are right abut some additional cost with Dillon, but it buys you extra convenience and function.

Be it as it may, unless you have a chance to spend some time with both systems, you will never know for sure. Given fairly large group of happy Hornady customers you can say one can be happy with it. Ditto for the Dillon devotees.

OTOH... I know of some people who switched from Hornady to Dillon, myself included.

I can't recall anyone doing the reverse...
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Old November 10, 2009, 10:32 PM   #50
Shane Tuttle
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Quote:
I can't recall anyone doing the reverse...
Shoney has, as well as some of his constituants...
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