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Old April 9, 2019, 05:21 PM   #1
DaleA
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Boston Globe on Gun Control

It is disheartening to constantly come across stuff like this. This comes from an editorial in the Boston Globe April 6, 2019.

Quote:
Yet to avoid that hassle, [of Massachusetts gun laws] all one has to do is drive up a few miles to New Hampshire or Maine, where the process is far easier and the rules are looser. New Hampshire does not require background checks online, at gun shows, or in private sales; in Maine, gun dealers or purchasers don’t need to get a state license.
Perhaps if you parse the language with a fine tooth comb you could possibly make the case that they aren't lying but IMhO they are putting out the idea that you can just go to another state, buy whatever you want and return to Massachusetts with it.

I'd call it lying and it's not because I can't spell "disingenuous".

(Okay, I had to look it up but I'm sticking to my point.)
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Old April 9, 2019, 05:35 PM   #2
riffraff
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Oh its not only a lie but they are vilifying their neighbor states.

I saw the article. Obviously nobody fact checks at the Boston globe.

Private sale between non FFL residents of long guns, sure in nh thats ok. Residents, ie of the same state in that state, not a MA resident going to NH and buying guns private sale EVER - already a federal felony today.

In NH pistols are higher scrutiny - there is supposed to be actual familiarity or a pistol permit presented, else goes to an FFL by law.

In practice half the people selling bolt action long guns want to go through an FFL if the buyer lacks a NH permit..

Whatever the case the Boston globe is garbage. No there is no facts in the article unless you are talking about activity that is already felonious which happens in every state even in MA.
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Old April 9, 2019, 05:59 PM   #3
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Now what might be factual is an article about the scum they harbor in MA who take trips over the border to commit crimes..
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Old April 9, 2019, 06:16 PM   #4
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The real problem is that people will believe it. Lies are told everyday.....most of them by the media. People tend to want to believe anything they agree with.
The mainstream media is absolutely the worst. They find an article (or invent one) that agrees with their agenda and they run with it everyday.
When you have an agenda to blame guns for crime rather than criminals this is what you get.
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Old April 9, 2019, 07:30 PM   #5
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Most of the things in which I consider my self knowledgeable about (not just guns) the media has either outright lied, been misleading or deceptive about; so I can only assume that the media isn’t being honest about the things in which I know nothing.

Last edited by rickyrick; April 9, 2019 at 07:35 PM.
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Old April 9, 2019, 07:35 PM   #6
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Old April 9, 2019, 07:41 PM   #7
riffraff
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Not the people of MA (maybe the people of Boston ), but i really really despise the state of MA in general, its a terrible place and has been getting worse for the 25 years ive paid attention...

I remember one stunt they pulled that sums up the states view on things - attempting to force NH businesses to provide credit card charges for MA residents who shopped in NH businesses bordering MA... NH made a law against it, done .. really an awful place though.
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Old April 10, 2019, 05:25 AM   #8
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Wow. I don't even know how to respond to the quoted texted because it's wrong in so many ways.

The sad part is, some people do believe it and think it works that way. In the "no kidding, I witnessed it" category, when I worked for an FFL here in NH, we had an older gentleman come in wanting to buy a rifle. When handed a 4473 and asked for ID he balked. He believed the lies that in NH gun sales are cash and carry.

Needless to say, no sale was completed and he was asked in no uncertain terms to never grace us with his presence again.

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Old April 10, 2019, 08:41 AM   #9
riffraff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P-990 View Post
Wow. I don't even know how to respond to the quoted texted because it's wrong in so many ways.

The sad part is, some people do believe it and think it works that way. In the "no kidding, I witnessed it" category, when I worked for an FFL here in NH, we had an older gentleman come in wanting to buy a rifle. When handed a 4473 and asked for ID he balked. He believed the lies that in NH gun sales are cash and carry.

Needless to say, no sale was completed and he was asked in no uncertain terms to never grace us with his presence again.

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I forget how it was when I was a kid ~25 years ago but I want to say you presented an ID and there was a form, however they just filed the form and handed you the rifle without any background check - is that correct? Whatever the case it's not that way today.
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Old April 10, 2019, 09:34 AM   #10
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“Lies are told every day.... mostly by the media.”

I am calling “BS” on that. I want to see your data for that.

One lie told on a news program is seen by millions of people, yet of those millions of people only 10& told a little white lie or made a factual error that’s 100,000 lies.

You are not differentiating between outright lies and intentional misinformation vs. a reporter that has a misconception, misunderstanding, or made a mistake.

I had several friends that were journalists. They explained that they have the skills to write fast and their editor needed the story by the deadline. They don’t have time to deeply research a story as a reporter for The Economist does. Even if they did, average people don’t want to read complicated stuff. People want an easy story. “All snakes bad!” or “Pollution isn’t our fault.”

There are the kinds of lies salesmen tell every day. “This is a great car, you’ll love it.”
I say that’s a lie because the salesman knows I might not love it and it’s insincere and in the salesman’s best interest. The salesman says “No, I actually believe it! Some of my customers love it!” but he admits he has a positive can-do attitude and thinking about his hundreds of dissatisfied customers is “pessimistic.”

As for media... that’s what you are reading right now.

This media has no editors, a voluntary legal compliance administration, no qualified fact checkers, the authors are anonymous...

So... some kid writes a stupid article. Write the editor and correct it.

As for regulations regarding buying guns... it’s a bit ironic that people on this thread don’t know about the national firearms act (1934) and gun control act of 1968.

Used to be you could wander in to a hardware store and buy a machine gun. Before 1934.

Last edited by stinkeypete; April 10, 2019 at 09:55 AM.
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Old April 10, 2019, 09:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffraff View Post
I forget how it was when I was a kid ~25 years ago but I want to say you presented an ID and there was a form, however they just filed the form and handed you the rifle without any background check - is that correct? Whatever the case it's not that way today.
Given that 25 years ago I was just a kid too, I do believe you are correct. You still needed an ID and to fill out a 4473.

I should've clarified. My story was from only 3 years ago, and if I remember correctly the gentleman in question was a resident of MA.

And in NH, the background check goes into NICS for long guns and State Police for handguns.

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Old April 10, 2019, 05:48 PM   #12
Mainah
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From the OP's Globe quote;

Quote:
in Maine, gun dealers or purchasers don’t need to get a state license.
Get a state license for what exactly?
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Old April 10, 2019, 06:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
I had several friends that were journalists. They explained that they have the skills to write fast and their editor needed the story by the deadline. They don’t have time to deeply research a story as a reporter for The Economist does. Even if they did, average people don’t want to read complicated stuff. People want an easy story. “All snakes bad!” or “Pollution isn’t our fault.”
Your friends' excuses don't explain why a writers' errors so frequently serve their personal views.

This leads to hilarities like Jim Acosta explaining that no southern border wall is needed because there is no problem...an explanation he delivers standing next to a border wall, or Walter Duranty's darker inability or unwillingness to acknowledge Stalin's Ukraine famine in the NYT. Follow the conflict between Paul Krugman and the ombudsman for the NYT Daniel Okrent.

If errors were substantially attributable to short deadlines and moronic readers, they wouldn't correlate to biases. If an author wants to make a case that greater gun sales regulation is required, omitting the ample existing regulation serves that case.

Last edited by zukiphile; April 10, 2019 at 07:12 PM.
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Old April 11, 2019, 12:56 AM   #14
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I have had a few dealings with the media on both sides of the political spectrum over the years, and it is painfully obvious that they often get half of the facts entirely wrong.

The problem with this is that the reader/viewer doesn't know this, and forms their opinion based on what is presented to them.
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Old April 11, 2019, 08:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Yet to avoid that hassle, [of Massachusetts gun laws] all one has to do is drive up a few miles to New Hampshire or Maine, where the process is far easier and the rules are looser.
New Hampshire's per-capita murder rate with firearms is half that of Massachusetts.
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Old April 11, 2019, 01:59 PM   #16
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When you write about things you really don't understand for people who know even less about them.....
In one of his James Bond novels Ian Fleming made numerous mistakes about Bond's firearms. He received a letter from the British gunwriter Jeffery Boothroyd pointing them out. In the next novel "Major Boothroyd" had been appointed Bond's armourer.
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Old April 12, 2019, 12:09 AM   #17
DaleA
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Many apologies to everyone. I meant to post a link to the Boston Globe article in my original post but I see I forgot to do that. When I post stuff like this I should include a link to the article so you can go see for yourself that it is really there. In this case I meant to do it but forgot. Sorry.
Here's the link to the Boston Globe editorial:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...p8M/story.html
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Old April 12, 2019, 01:37 AM   #18
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Isn’t it illegal to print something that is false?

In Estonia, if the press publish something false or withhold information it’s in breach of the press and media legislation. They take it quite seriously given how the press was used 30 years ago under communism and is still used to the East today...
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Old April 12, 2019, 05:23 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjp
Isn’t it illegal to print something that is false?
Not in the US.

If someone publishes a false statement about a private individual and the statement defames that person, the person may have a cuase of action against the publisher for money. However, the government doesn't have the power to prohibit a statement as simply untrue.*

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Old April 12, 2019, 11:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Most of the things in which I consider my self knowledgeable about (not just guns) the media has either outright lied, been misleading or deceptive about; so I can only assume that the media isn’t being honest about the things in which I know nothing.
This is very true. One inescapable truth about the American media is that they are VERY lazy. Add to this that they are also VERY opinionated, and we have the crisis that we find ourselves in now....
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Old April 12, 2019, 02:40 PM   #21
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I would resist the notion that working journalists are generally lazy. It's a line of work about which people have romantic notions with people falling all over themselves to do it for little or no money.

There is a lot of commentary suggesting that real working newsrooms suffer from a lack of diversity. If everyone in a room received a liberal arts degree then went to J-school, the room may have women and racial minorities, but may not have an engineer, a veteran, anyone who ever drove a truck for money, or anyone of the many experiences life offer but is typically beyond the population who have spent most of a decade of their early adulthood sitting in a classroom in which a single viewpoint prevails.

Journalists don't randomly convey neutral facts; they tell stories. Do we imagine a journalist doesn't know what story he wants to tell before he sets pen to paper? A journalist who wants to tell a story about how it is too easy to get guns is going to tell that story. The details of dealer licensing or how NICS works aren't going to deter him from telling his story.

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Old April 12, 2019, 03:04 PM   #22
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Don't forget who is paying the reporters, who owns the mainstream newspapers and media. Just follow the money and it is easy to see why only one side is represented.

I never thought I would see our society have such a negative view on a person's ability to defend themselves or think that someone needs SWAT training to own a pistol.

Give it about 20 years, and there will be people screaming about self-driven cars out on the highways still being driven by humans.

Why, it is senseless to think that cars going 60 mph, in opposite directions no less, are zooming by each other just inches apart. If these people haven't been trained and certified by the Blue Angels and the Air Force, they have no business out here with the rest of us. Sound about right?
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Old April 13, 2019, 02:34 PM   #23
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Years ago I met a man who told me he started out in journalism and was now working in advertising. He said they're basically the same thing but in advertising people are more honest about their motives. And in journalism school they never got past generalities.
Edward R. Murrow is quoted as saying you can teach a brain to speak in round tones, but if someone can speak in round tones and has no brain....
I don't think journalists and newspeople are lazy, rather as Will Rogers noted, what a lot of they know isn't so.
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Old April 13, 2019, 10:19 PM   #24
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If you are surprised that the editorial of a major metro newspaper is biased and omits important facts and distorts or misstates others, you haven't been paying attention for the last couple centuries...
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Old April 24, 2019, 10:24 AM   #25
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What this?? The Boston Globe printing something that isn't true? I thought everything in print was true. Amazing how these companies such as the Boston Globe stay in business. Guess there are enough people out there that will believe anything they print.
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