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Old January 16, 2019, 03:35 PM   #1
TunnelRat
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A New P229, A Franken P229, or a Bad/Fake Picture?

I was surfing gun.deals last night and I came upon an ad from Cabela's for a new P229 Nitron for $750. Seemed reasonable so I clicked on the link and then noticed the picture. https://www.cabelas.com/product/SIG-...ls/1374737.uts

When you look at the P229 Nitron picture you notice something. First is this has the short extractor but full length slide serrations, so it's not a so called Legacy slide but it's not a typical P229 in that it doesn't have the long extractor. Then you notice that the trigger guard has a bit of an undercut to it that reminds me of the Legion. This Legion similarity is further exemplified in what seems like a hint of a beaver tail. Certainly more than normal, but not a full beaver tail. The SKU it shows is the same standard P229 SKU, which on SIG's page still looks like this https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p229-nitron-compact.html. You can easily compare the Cabela's picture to the "standard" picture by toggling between the P229 Nitron and the Combat, which looks as it does on SIG's site.

Anyone have any ideas if this is a redesign, a Frankengun as SIG has done from time to time, or just a wrong picture?

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Old January 16, 2019, 04:00 PM   #2
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Huge red flag, there, bud.

Any used SIG should be steered clear from and especially a franken-SIG.

SIG Sauer themselves say they do not cover any issues even if they're factory faults such as a slide out of spec that is destroying the frame, if the gun was purchased used.

Warranty only applies to the new/first owner.

I know of this first hand with my P229 date coded 2010.

I also had a P226 start down the same path. Even with the backing of Bruce Gray, they denied me any kind of help whatsoever on an Elite Dark model.


Now, I noticed that the German-framed ones don't see to ever have these issues as they wear smooth.
I've owned a couple of franken-SIGs with luck.

Heck, I think I have one right now. It's a beaver tail P229 (German frame) and the older slide (non-Elite Dark). It's been good... Then again...German frame. I also have the MK25.

Nothing I said is meant to be taken a wrong way. Just my experiences. The only thing that holds truest of the true is their take on warranty work on used guns. :/ So I wouldn't risk it.
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Old January 16, 2019, 04:20 PM   #3
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This isn't used, it's new. Did you open the link?

Edit: On a side note, when did you change your name from Constantine?

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Old January 16, 2019, 04:50 PM   #4
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I can't open the link at work, sadly.
That's a good price for new.

The person changed, the name changed. All is well in the neighborhood. lol.

Not too long ago. Had it in the signature with Tapatalk.
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Old January 16, 2019, 04:58 PM   #5
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That's interesting and weird.... I like the full-height serrations... and I also like the short extractors. Of course, the Romeo optics are a complete joke and break with relative ease. They would have hit a home rum with the RX series if they has the Romeo's fit an RMR footprint like the Holosun 507C.

Hopefully the short extractor with full serrations is back!
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Old January 16, 2019, 05:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactical Jackalope View Post
I can't open the link at work, sadly.
That's a good price for new.

The person changed, the name changed. All is well in the neighborhood. lol.

Not too long ago. Had it in the signature with Tapatalk.
No biggie, just realized suddenly.

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Old January 16, 2019, 05:08 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Uncle Malice View Post
That's interesting and weird.... I like the full-height serrations... and I also like the short extractors. Of course, the Romeo optics are a complete joke and break with relative ease. They would have hit a home rum with the RX series if they has the Romeo's fit an RMR footprint like the Holosun 507C.

Hopefully the short extractor with full serrations is back!
Yeah I don't really mind the looks (I don't really want the Romeo version either) and I think it's an interesting combination of features. I'm just trying to figure out if this is actually how they are now or what, since this was the first I noticed it and SIG's site doesn't seem to show anything like it. It's almost a Mk25 short now with that slide, but with a Legionish frame. I kind of figured with the Legion series that the long extractors were the defacto going forward. I can't for the life of me figure out their product catalog in terms of how it varies and when.

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Old January 16, 2019, 05:30 PM   #8
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Any used SIG should be steered clear from
Huh? That's simply ridiculous.

Every SIG I own is a used SIG, and they have all been superb pistols. Granted, they are all West German production, so I can't speak to the US-made guns (frankly none of which interest me). Good condition matching number West German SIGs for good prices are still pretty easy to find on the used market.

I also can't speak to franken-guns, but I don't make a habit of buying such things anyway.

.

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Old January 16, 2019, 05:33 PM   #9
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By Franken in this case I mean a potentially new pistol that seems to be the result of the combination of parts leftover or originally from other SKUs. It doesn't have to be used, and often isn't. I can name some car manufacturers that do this too

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Old January 16, 2019, 05:51 PM   #10
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By Franken in this case I mean a potentially new pistol that seems to be the result of the combination of parts leftover or originally from other SKUs. It doesn't have to be used, and often isn't. I can name some car manufacturers that do this too
Understood - was primarily referring to Jackalope's comment about buying used SIGs, which are generally no more hazardous than buying any other used pistol.

Your definition of Franken-gun sounds more like the way way FN handled contract Hi-Powers or Colt produces 1911s - "parts bin guns" that use up supplies of new old-stock parts in new guns, making for numerous variations in production with no different designations.
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Old January 16, 2019, 06:08 PM   #11
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That's a pretty accurate description really and I like the term.

That's what I'm curious about here. Is this just a one-off result, or the new standard? My friends at the factory have left for greener pastures or I'd ask them. I could always call SIG or go on over to the SIG Academy and they might know there. If it is a one off run it's a very unique combination of parts.
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Old January 16, 2019, 06:42 PM   #12
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Interesting. The P220 and P225A still use the short extractor for whatever reason but first I have seen on a P229. It would be really interesting to stop in a Cabelas to see if they actually have any P229s that look like that. I have one not to far away but probably won't be out that way for a bit. Not sure why SIG would make the change as the long extractor has been used for a number of years now and from I can tell they are pretty reliable.
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Old January 17, 2019, 12:15 PM   #13
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Fishbed77,

I don't want to stand behind a company that doesn't stand behind their product just because they were purchased second-hand. I think that is asinine.

To add insult to injury, said weapon left the factory defective and they still wouldn't. That was their excuse to me as to why they won't replace or even meet me in the middle by paying for half of it.

So yes... I steer clear of them based on that experience alone. And I recommend my friends do the same.
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Old January 17, 2019, 07:07 PM   #14
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I bought a police turn-in SIG P229 for $300-something. It's a superb pistol. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to buy another used SIG in nice condition for that price.
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Old January 17, 2019, 07:38 PM   #15
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I’ve bought a few pistols from Cabelas, including a really sweet BHP Mk II at a fantastic price. You’re getting a decent deal on a new U.S. production P229 Nitron and based on my experience I believe they would honor that ad price.

But at that price I’d rather have a decent W. German P228 (which I have) or a W. German P220 or P226 (which I’d sure like to have). My “new” production SIG’s are my M11-A1 and my SAS Gen2 P239 and these are both solid guns but this is as far out in the limb I go for new production SIGs.
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Old January 17, 2019, 11:41 PM   #16
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I've owned a lot of SIGs, probably a dozen or more. That includes West German with date code, German parts assembled in Exeter, German frames with US slides, and full US pistols. I've generally had okay luck with all of them. While I would agree the West German models are nicer, parts are harder and harder to find and frankly if I'm looking to put tons of rounds through a pistol I'd rather not do it to one of those. The new production pistols you mentioned are as expensive if not moreso than the pistol in question here. I'd add I don't even know if I want to buy the pistol here. I'm more curious about what I'm looking at than getting a new pistol.
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Old January 18, 2019, 09:27 AM   #17
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For the most part, the classic P-Series pistols are some of my favorites. I just don't trust the new stuff that comes out of that company anymore. But I also won't write them 100% either. It's a weird spot to be in, trust me.

I just want to say, if you do get a P229 with an optic on it that it'd be really awesome to see. And I might, just might do the same to mine. :X
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Old January 18, 2019, 09:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Fishbed77,

I don't want to stand behind a company that doesn't stand behind their product just because they were purchased second-hand. I think that is asinine.

To add insult to injury, said weapon left the factory defective and they still wouldn't. That was their excuse to me as to why they won't replace or even meet me in the middle by paying for half of it.

So yes... I steer clear of them based on that experience alone. And I recommend my friends do the same.
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Of course, the SIG-Sauer consortium who manufactured pistols in West Germany and the current-day SIG SAUER headquartered in New Hampshire are, for all practical purposes, different companies. That doesn't excuse the business practices of the current American entity.

I purchase older West German-made SIG Sauer pistols with the same expectation I have of other surplus pistols, and not with the expectation of a newly manufactured and marketed pistol. That said, the level of QA/QC of these West German guns were so high that manufacturing defects are very unlikely to be encountered (especially considering that, if they existed, they would have been discovered long ago). To date, I have had absolutely no trouble in acquiring parts for them.

If you want to warn people away from new or recent American-production SIG SAUER products is understandable considering the recent history of the company. To warn people from all SIG Sauer products (including the West German examples) because you don't care for the (admittedly bad) business practices of the current American entity is simply bad advice.
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Old January 18, 2019, 11:52 AM   #19
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Well...they haven't really been cranking out quality weapons over the years.

So it's hard to recommend anything from them at all. They don't stand behind used models, which is matter of fact. Unfortunately.

And the new models like the P320, which had to have the internals beefed up or changed a few times. The MPX, which is on I don't even know what generation now. The P365, which has been and is still having issues with light strikes among other problems.

I think it's great advice that they search for a reliable firearm elsewhere.
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Old January 21, 2019, 11:06 AM   #20
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Well...they haven't really been cranking out quality weapons over the years.

So it's hard to recommend anything from them at all. They don't stand behind used models, which is matter of fact. Unfortunately.
You appear to have completely missed the point of my earlier posts.

I agree however, that there are no new-production SIG products that I would recommend.
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Old January 21, 2019, 11:47 AM   #21
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I clearly did. Might have been two responses and different sentiments mixed into one. lol, it happens.
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Old January 23, 2019, 08:36 AM   #22
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That's bizarre...I kind of like it. I'll swing by the SIG Pro Shop this weekend and see what I can find out.
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Old January 23, 2019, 10:48 AM   #23
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So I stopped by the Pro Shop. The P229s they have are still the "current" style, but all the P227s they have match this style. When I asked about it the answer I got was they are likely standardizing on this frame and slide. In the old days I'd say it's a matter of reducing the parts swapped out on machines by making the Legion and standard model more similar, but when it's just a CNC program I'm not sure how much work there is there.

So it's not a mistaken picture or a parts gun from what I can tell, looks like it's what's to come. Since it's the same SKU I'm not sure how you'd guarantee what you'd get. Over time my guess is they'll all look like this.

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Old January 23, 2019, 11:49 AM   #24
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Thanks for the info TunnelRat.
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Old January 24, 2019, 08:34 AM   #25
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Cool..Thanks TunnelRat. Saved me a trip and the temptation to buy something new
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