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Old June 26, 2016, 11:55 AM   #26
fastbolt
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If you were talking about a hand-to-hand situation, would you want to stand still and be a stationary target to be punched? Or, move and perhaps be harder for the "attacker" to punch?

It's difficult to punch and hit (especially effectively) a moving target. Ditto shooting one. The difficulty increases when you're also moving.

Picking a direction to "get off the x" depends on many things that are unpredictable, not the least of which is probably going to be the physical/postural orientation of yourself at the moment of discovering you want to MOVE.

The environmental conditions, and the orientation of the immediate threat from which you want to escape, are going to be further factors that might affect your action.

Lots of folks seem to want to over-think this sort of hypothetical situation. There's a reason they often use the words dynamic, rapidly changing and evolving in such situations. Better have your foundation skillset and ability to safely move more on the developed and well practiced end of things.

If someone has access to some properly supervised force-on-force training, using red/blue rubber guns, it might reveal some interesting things.

Risk management people like to keep everyone reminded and aware that good training ought to be done in a manner which reduces the risk of injuries. Just chasing each other around rooms filled with furniture, using airsoft guns, isn't the same thing as carefully planned, conducted and supervised f-o-f training.
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Old June 26, 2016, 12:03 PM   #27
Glenn E. Meyer
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Just for the discussion. It is said to run to cover. Well, how far is cover? Are you shooting when you run to cover - otherwise you give the opponent a few seconds to shoot away at you. Some speculate you would be better to shoot back. How do you know that thing is cover? Is it just concealment that gets filled with lead as you arrive?

So many variables. There may be a difference from basically dodging a few steps to a run. Good idea to try FOF.
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Old June 26, 2016, 08:00 PM   #28
JERRYS.
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next time I will make sure I have the time to type the year book answer...

when I say move off the X, it is a left or right movement. if you are 10 feet in front of an assailant, moving 2 feet towards him or away from him in a straight line pretty much accomplishes nothing regarding getting off the X. however, moving 2 feet to either side is more beneficial.
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Old June 27, 2016, 07:18 AM   #29
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Quote:
when I say move off the X, it is a left or right movement.
And it may be.

Quote:
...moving 2 feet towards him or away from him in a straight line pretty much accomplishes nothing regarding getting off the X. however, moving 2 feet to either side is more beneficial.
Of course, those are not the only choices.
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Old June 27, 2016, 08:38 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrys
move towards cover, left or right doesn't matter, pick the closest cover.
You seem confused. Do you believe that you should ignore cover if it is 2 feet in front of you or behind you? You believe that it would be more beneficial to move 2 feet to the side in the open rather than 2 feet forward or backward to cover?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrys
when I say move off the X, it is a left or right movement. if you are 10 feet in front of an assailant, moving 2 feet towards him or away from him in a straight line pretty much accomplishes nothing regarding getting off the X. however, moving 2 feet to either side is more beneficial.
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Old June 27, 2016, 11:17 AM   #31
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I think the overriding principle is to improve your position. If cover is avail... Move to it

If youre out in the open and the attacker is closing distance, some lateral movement is prob a good idea. If i have some interviening barrier alreadybetween us it is foolish to step oout from behing it into the open.

Totally situationally dependent..

So, do you moove off the X or stay there.....Yes is the answer
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Old June 27, 2016, 02:49 PM   #32
Tactical Jackalope
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Guys, always move. Always. What happens next is for the situation to dictate. Drawing, grabbing the gun, etc, etc, etc. We can pull out scenarios all day long with no right answer.
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Old June 27, 2016, 03:09 PM   #33
JERRYS.
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Quote:
You seem confused. Do you believe that you should ignore cover if it is 2 feet in front of you or behind you? You believe that it would be more beneficial to move 2 feet to the side in the open rather than 2 feet forward or backward to cover?
no confusion at all. if you have cover that close than of course you should take it.

Quote:
Of course, those are not the only choices.
Yesterday 09:00 PM
aye aye.
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Old June 27, 2016, 03:33 PM   #34
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Guys, always move. Always.
Always (like Never) is too big a word to use when talking tactics. If you are behind solid cover WHY would you move from there? Makes no sense.

Move to improve your position...Yes. Move just because somebody said to "always move". Thats insane
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Old June 27, 2016, 06:10 PM   #35
Glenn E. Meyer
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I asked a friend who runs a great many tactical classes. Analysis:

Quote:
Basically what we've learned is that if you are within a few steps of
cover, your odds of winning are best if you move to cover first, then
draw and engage, because trying to draw and engage as you move to cover
leaves you exposed longer than just hauling ass to cover.

As the distance from cover increases, your odds of getting shot go up as
you are exposed and not shooting at the threat. Being shot at really
disrupts the threat's ability to stand there and shoot at you as you move.

Given that most people suck at shooting on the move at targets past 5
yards, the proximity of the threat plays a role in whether moving and
shooting benefits you. If the threat is past 5 yards, best odds of
hitting are to draw and engage without moving. Odds of them hitting you
are lower than odds you hitting them.

If they are close, maybe taking one step (a la Givens) and then engaging
from standing may end the fight fastest.
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Old June 27, 2016, 07:25 PM   #36
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Sometimes moving to cover is the answer. Sometimes things happen so quickly that your best bet is to draw and shoot as quickly as possible. At extremely close range moving isn't going to make you that much harder to hit.

Quote:
The stuff that's done in class involves at least some accommodation from your opponent.
And quite a bit of reservation not to really hurt them.
Wonder how realistic those moves are when someone is actually trying to do serious harm.
Very true, especially disarming techniques. There's often emphasis on being a "good role player".
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Old June 28, 2016, 09:05 PM   #37
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Good thread, it let's us get a lot of the overthinking out of our systems.
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Old June 28, 2016, 10:07 PM   #38
JERRYS.
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it seems a lot of the tactical thinking here is as if you see a gunman murdering people from a far and you have time to sprint through the mall or across a parking lot. how much does this work when the target is you and the attacker is 7 yards away and advancing?
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Old June 29, 2016, 08:01 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrys
how much does this work when the target is you and the attacker is 7 yards away and advancing?
As well as anything else claimed on the internet.

There are an infinite amount of situations and outcomes based on your decisions that you can claim will happen. Is your claim valid? Talk is cheap, no way to tell.

Even in force-on-force (Simunitions) training you'll find that the outcomes are not consistent, much less in the real world.
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Old June 29, 2016, 08:46 AM   #40
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Quote:
how much does this work when the target is you and the attacker is 7 yards away and advancing?
Moving is likely to work a lot better than standing still.
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