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Old April 28, 2016, 11:29 PM   #51
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lohman446
Let me note a couple things. The way I do it is not the most tactically sound way of doing it. I'll be right up front and admit that.....
As long as you understand that, fine. Also, of course, others should realize that your way of doing things should not be taken as a model.

As far as how to clear a house, as long as no one is there any way you do it will be fine. But if there is a hostile intruder, how you go about clearing your house (or checking on your children) is now a matter of great significance -- to you and to your family you're trying to protect.

Clearing a house when there is one or more hostile intruders is a highly dangerous activity. It's especially dangerous to do solo -- even if you're well trained. It's even dangerous when done as part of a group of trained people working together. It's most dangerous for the untrained person to do alone.

What we are taught at places like Gunsite are way to maximize the possibility of being able to survive doing a dangerous and difficult thing. Even with that training there are no guarantees, and it's possible for a proficient person to fail.

So once again, consider the links and pax' advice in post 12.
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Old April 29, 2016, 11:26 AM   #52
MurBob
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When I hear strange noises at night, I simply check my alarm system to see what's going on.

If my alarm starts barking and growling, I can get my gun out of my Fas1 safe in about 3 seconds in total darkness...

My high tech alarm system can tell the difference between a deer, a racoon, or a person before they get within 25 to 50 yards of the house.
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Old April 29, 2016, 06:00 PM   #53
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I was reading this forum shortly before bed last night. At about three in the morning I was awoken by a huge bang on the other side of my small house. My utterly charming, but worthless dog continued snoring on his bed next to mine.

Stayed awake in bed silently for several minutes and listened, no more noise. Got up and looked around without a gun. Noted that none of the outdoor motion detector lights were on. The cats were up and alert, but I couldn't identify the source of the sound. So I went back to bed.

When I got the paper in the morning I saw that an old attic window had fallen out of its frame, must have landed on the ceiling above the kitchen.
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Old April 30, 2016, 01:59 AM   #54
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What would I do?? Well that will depend on a number of things. If I am going downstairs for a snack or a final cup of coffee, then no gun. If there is a strange noise downstairs, I ALWAYS have a gun in my hand to check. If the dogs go off and there is strange sounds downstairs, the family takes a defensive position upstairs and 911 is called letting them know that we are armed and waiting for their help to arrive. There is no reason for any property of possessions that are worth putting yourself or your family at risk without obtaining professional help in clearing the house of any intruder.

Just my view and what we do.
Stay safe.
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Old April 30, 2016, 07:04 AM   #55
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Duplicate
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Old April 30, 2016, 08:38 AM   #56
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Awoken by a noise...

Bring you gun and flashlight every time as a habit at night! If the noise would have been and intruder waiting in the garage, you would have been in immediate danger. Also, if you are CCW, always carry except in federal buildings, and the like.
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Old April 30, 2016, 10:49 AM   #57
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This has happened to me twice recently. Both times were due to alarm system problems that have now been fixed.

A few things:

It's hard to go from a dead sleep to a full adrenaline charge.
You will make mistakes.
You might be confused. On the second incident, I thought it was my wife's phone
All of this "house-clearing-is-for-the-professionals" is nonsense. Get up and handle your business
If it is a home invasion, you will not have time to barricade the family and turn your bedroom into the Alamo
I encourage taking your weapon and a light. Finger forward
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Old April 30, 2016, 11:08 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Hiker 1
...All of this "house-clearing-is-for-the-professionals" is nonsense....
How would you know?
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Old April 30, 2016, 12:25 PM   #59
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If you're that worried about bumps in the night today's technology allows you to give yourself a camera angle on every vulnerable point in your home from the relatively secure position of your bedroom.
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Old April 30, 2016, 09:15 PM   #60
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Quote:
However, if I clear the house once a month
And I thought I was a light sleeper...
I might clear the house in response to a provocative event once every six months. Probably less often. Maybe once a year. Maybe I should track it on the calendar.
If I was waking up once a month and going to condition orange, I would make adjustments in my life. Either move, see a psychiatrist, or both.
I've previously lived in situations outside the US where condition orange/red was a daily norm, but never when I was in a place I would have called "home".
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Old May 1, 2016, 05:02 AM   #61
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Self Contained Security System

This is what I use to check on my house from my bedside. I can't tell you how many times I've heard noises and I lie there watching prior to checking ANYTHING out. I love this system!!

http://www.amazon.com/Uniden-G955-Wi...=sr_1_6&sr=8-6

With this self contained system you can put the monitor anywhere that's convenient with up to 4 cameras that you can place indoors and out. It also offers an APP for you to check the cameras from a smartphone....Nice if you're away from home OR in your safe zone during an incident.

My only complaint, the damn spiders build webs at night due to the infrared lights and the web trips the camera.

Last edited by ncrypt; May 1, 2016 at 09:19 AM.
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Old May 1, 2016, 07:49 AM   #62
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A long time ago, I found myself "clearing the house" a couple of times. It worked fine---because there was no one there. Then I learned better.

I have for some time been passing on advice here to not do so, and to not open a door when the visitor is not known. Yet knocks on the door continue to worry.

It should be patently obvious that a remote security camera system is the best answer by far. I've seen them, and I have seen how someone at lunch somewhere can see visitors at the door and the interior of the house on a smartphone. It also worked from the driveway.

It took me until this morning to order one.
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Old May 1, 2016, 07:54 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwilliamson062
And I thought I was a light sleeper...
I might clear the house in response to a provocative event once every six months. Probably less often. Maybe once a year. Maybe I should track it on the calendar.
If I was waking up once a month and going to condition orange, I would make adjustments in my life. Either move, see a psychiatrist, or both.
I've previously lived in situations outside the US where condition orange/red was a daily norm, but never when I was in a place I would have called "home".
I have a two year old who likes to wander and live in a fairly secluded area that has a creek a few hundred yards away from the house on the parcel I live on. The coyotes have been reproducing fairly rapidly. While I love where I live and what it allows me to do (and the absence of people frankly) it presents some challenges. Chances are I am up more than once a month checking out "that noise". Until we have a better plan of action my wife actually sleeps in my two year olds room. I sleep in the same room as my one year old because I might as well. Yes there is an alarm system but strange "bumps in the night" are common around here and are investigated. No I cannot call the police that often to "check out that noise" for me.

It likely influences my tactical decisions. I am simply not going to wander out looking for what is likely my wife or child with a gun even in the low ready position. Nor am I going to go into lock down mode. The bad news is it means I am responding in a way that is less than ideal to what could be a real threat.


In regards to wireless cameras: I am not giving someone the ability to hack into my home network and be given an unmonitored view of the inside and activity of my house. Right now my biggest tactical advantage is knowing where the kids normally leave toys at night
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Old May 1, 2016, 08:08 AM   #64
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Posted by Lohman446:
Quote:
No I cannot call the police that often to "check out that noise" for me.
No one can do that. One calls when it is clear that there are intruders on the house.

To traipse out with gun in hand to find them is a very poor idea, for reasons discussed at great length in this forum over the years. No knowledgeable expert recommends down that.

Quote:
In regards to wireless cameras: I am not giving someone the ability to hack into my home network and be given an unmonitored view of the inside and activity of my house.
That is something of a risk, but it is probably one of one's least serious risks when it comes to hacking stuff, and I think the systems do mitigate more serious risks far more effectively than they create.

Quote:
Right now my biggest tactical advantage is knowing where the kids normally leave toys at night
I fall to see how that would provide anyone with any "tactical advantage" whatsoever. Is that a joke?
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Old May 1, 2016, 08:28 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMarksman
fall to see how that would provide anyone with any "tactical advantage" whatsoever. Is that a joke?
Its a light hearted reference to a certain advantage one has in their own home. I know where all the lighting sources are, where the "shadowed corners", where the furniture is. I can navigate the house in the dark and know what looks out of place.

I have a different thought on what clearing a house is. It is investigating a noise. If I see a real threat the intent is, if at all possible, to gather the family and retreat to a single defensible position. My wife is competent with her handgun so it is far preferable to go "all in" and defend a single location while we wait for the police.

When some of you are referencing clearing a house in some tactically sound manner (which I take to mean firearm at least in the low ready position) I am taking that to mean how you investigate a noise. My firearm is as relatively "ready" as it can be without being obvious when I check on noises (proper grip, finger forward, behind my leg). I am careful of corners and other hiding spots. Is it the most effective way? Probably not. But I have no intention of confronting an intruder if I can know everyone else is safe in the house without it

My situation also gives less advantage to a security system as I am going to have to actively gather other family members. I cannot simply see the threat and barricade myself in my bedroom.
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Old May 1, 2016, 08:58 AM   #66
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Posted by Lohman446:
Quote:
I know where all the lighting sources are, where the "shadowed corners", where the furniture is. I can navigate the house in the dark and know what looks out of place.
Many people have believed in the importance of that argument over the years.

But--it has been tested, and found wanting. In FoF simulations, defenders who knew every centimeter of their structures have set out to find and engage intruders who did not. Over the several years in which such scenarios were played out in the old National Tactical Invitationals, only once, or maybe twice, did the defender who went hunting prevail.

The hunter is always at a distinct disadvantage, and the likelihood of his being ambushed is so great that such a tactic is to be avoided.

Quote:
My firearm is as relatively "ready" as it can be without being obvious when I check on noises (proper grip, finger forward, behind my leg).
Your firearm cannot stop bullets, nor can it prevent an ambush and crossfire from those who may have been waiting and listening for your approach.

Quote:
My situation also gives less advantage to a security system as I am going to have to actively gather other family members.
Yes, if there is someone in the house, you certainly do have to worry about others.

Nice to know where the intruders are, though.

But if there is no one there, you can stay put, and avoid the risk of encountering and shooting an innocent, and yes, that does happen.

This is not a new discussion. Spend some time searching though six or eight years of posts on the subject.
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Old May 1, 2016, 11:07 AM   #67
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Quote:
But--it has been tested, and found wanting. In FoF simulations, defenders who knew every centimeter of their structures have set out to find and engage intruders who did not. Over the several years in which such scenarios were played out in the old National Tactical Invitationals, only once, or maybe twice, did the defender who went hunting prevail.
Been there. I recall my buddy - came out of the exercise and said:

"Glenn, I shot my son".

Same result at Advanced Tactical classes at KRtraining.com The naive who went out to challenge the folks who broke him were 'killed' easily. Most of them wandered down a fatal funnel trap.

Unless, you have to save someone - stay put. BTW, with the alarm suggestions - get ones that you can control from a safe area and sounds a loud obnoxious siren or horn.
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Old May 1, 2016, 11:27 AM   #68
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Posted by Glenn E. Meyer:
Quote:
Been there. I recall my buddy - came out of the exercise and said:

"Glenn, I shot my son"
That illustrates an important point.

When the hunting defender is focused on something he thinks is ahead of him, and he suddenly becomes aware of movement in his peripheral vision, (1) if it is an intruder with a firearm, the intruder has to react and shoot instantly, and he may not be able to do so timely; but (2) he has an absolute obligation to identify the target before shooting.

A violent criminal actor in the house is unlikely to take the time to do that.
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Old May 1, 2016, 03:32 PM   #69
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I have two very alert dogs. Any time they go off in the middle of the night, the first thing I reach for is my gun before I even think of investigating.
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Old May 3, 2016, 12:44 PM   #70
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This is such a hard call. Living with a cat is like living in a haunted house. There will always be noises in the night from rooms that are "empty". Imo, stay put with the weapon, listen, call out for your kids, turn on lights, give the "intruder" plenty of time to identify itself, cat, child sneak thief, whatever.

Don't go after an intruder in the darkest not necessary to hunt one down, and just taking up your weapon raises the risk of injury.

If the lights coming on and you doing roll call scares off an intruder, well, you won. Finding him and killing him isn't they'll, is it? Your goal is to keep your family safe. Every situation plays out differently, and sometimes this an would fail. Do whatever you think you have to do, I'm going to continue using this plan.
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Old May 4, 2016, 01:50 PM   #71
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All of this "house-clearing-is-for-the-professionals" is nonsense. Get up and handle your business
More false bravado from the inexperienced. Have you ever trained in this? The only time a single person will win when clearing a structure is when he is either extremely lucky or facing a grossly incompetent subject.

Better off hardening your home so you have time to secure your family. Make sure no one can get to your kid's rooms without going past yours first. Having a family to protect should make you even more determined to use good tactics and not get yourself killed.
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Old May 4, 2016, 04:27 PM   #72
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I feel like I agree with those sentiments.

Knowingly going after an intruder when you and your loved ones are safe involves a LOT of risk. Someone, anyone, anywhere, could be hurt when shots are fired. There is no way to guarantee that the bad guy will be the only one who dies. Home defense, by its definition is all about defending yourself and remaining unharmed, right? If they come to you, go get 'em, tiger, but the smart thing will always be to avoid the fight.

If a person finds an intruder,staying alive is the primary goal, among others, and I believe that killing or injuring, or capturing the hoodlum is far down the list.

I confess that I deal with every situation differently. I get night noises all of the time. I have three stories, and this place is defensive, and very, very unsuitable for hunting down bad guys from inside. If I ever hear voices, I will hunker down. Period. I do investigate noises when I have gone through a few checks, such as checking whether it bothered the cats. Those cats, much like a dog, know what is going on, and don't usually respond to a normal sound. Most of the time, when I hear something, I just lay awake for a while listening. This creaky old place won't even let the cats slip around quietly.
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Old May 4, 2016, 05:10 PM   #73
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http://www.joplinglobe.com/news/loca...00aebcec6.html

Just got a conviction for a series of house invasions, twenty year old kids, one of four were killed.

That article is full of weirdness. Bottom line is that these twenty something kids brazenly smashed into houses and everyone was lucky. All this in itty bitty southwest Missouri.
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Old May 4, 2016, 06:16 PM   #74
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Years ago in my first house I identified the next door neighbor's frequent visits as drug activity. Decided to mind my own business until one night when a pizza delivery guy showed up at my house wth a pie for them. Then I realized that if he got the address wrong someone looking to rip them off could too. Situational awareness needs to extend beyond your property.
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