The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Curios and Relics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 3, 2015, 03:44 PM   #1
aarondhgraham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma
Posts: 8,366
I have a question about the M-44 bayonet,,,

I have a question about the M-44 bayonet,,,
Can it be removed in any way?

I don't mean permanently,,,
Just taken off so it's easier to shoot.

Aarond

.
__________________
Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Combat: "A Silent Cry"
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
aarondhgraham is offline  
Old November 3, 2015, 04:20 PM   #2
WryBot
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 7, 2014
Posts: 1
Maybe someone can clarify or correct me on this, but removing it may make it harder to shoot (accurately).

My understanding is that they were designed to be fired with the bayonet on there, and removing it can mess up harmonics or some such, ruining your grouping. In fact, some m44s have been known to group better with the bayonet extended.

This could just be all an urban myth, too, as I don't know if there are any solid scientific comparisons out there. That being said, it's extraordinarily difficult to remove, and probably isn't worth it. Unless you have a disability that prevents usage of the rifle with the bayonet on, I'd recommend you do as the Soviets did; get used to it.
WryBot is offline  
Old November 3, 2015, 04:49 PM   #3
2ndsojourn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 15, 2013
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,400
I think it's illegal in NJ to have it on. (I know you're in a free state...I'm just sayin'.)
The legislators in Trenton think we'll go charging up a hill if they're legal.
2ndsojourn is offline  
Old November 3, 2015, 04:59 PM   #4
DennisCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2012
Location: Union City CA (a.k.a. Poople's Republik of CA)
Posts: 451
WryBot is right - leave the bayonet on. The more you take it on and off the better chances of screwing something up or misplacing a part

(I heard a real P-I-T-A to take off)

I have a M44 and it DOES shoot better with the bayo extended (as good as a mosin can shoot).

If you wanted something without a bayo - get a M38
DennisCA is offline  
Old November 4, 2015, 12:15 PM   #5
aarondhgraham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma
Posts: 8,366
I can't tell from the pictures,,,

I can't tell from the pictures,,,
But what makes the "pivot" for the bayonet?

Is it a screw that can be removed?,,,
Or is it some sort of pressed in pin?

I can see from pictures that the part that wraps around the barrel looks semi permanent,,,
So leaving that part on would seem mandatory.

I'm talking about removing just the blade itself.

Is that possible?

Aarond
__________________
Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Combat: "A Silent Cry"
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
aarondhgraham is offline  
Old November 4, 2015, 02:04 PM   #6
Toney
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 17, 2005
Location: Stillwater Oklahoma
Posts: 790
Removing the bayo with change the poi a lot...
Toney is offline  
Old November 4, 2015, 02:33 PM   #7
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,172
aarond, removing the bayonet is not that difficult. The hardest part is getting the pivot screw to turn since they are generally staked with a punch mark or two. Once the screw turns, the next hardest part is keeping spring tension off the blade while you remove the screw the rest of the way, I've done it many times, but I never bothered to check accuracy while shooting 'coz my M44 is just for "blasting."
__________________
As always, YMMV.
__________________________________________
MIIAA
SIFE
gyvel is offline  
Old November 4, 2015, 03:26 PM   #8
aarondhgraham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma
Posts: 8,366
Thanks gentlemen,,,

Quote:
The hardest part is getting the pivot screw to turn since they are generally staked with a punch mark or two.
"Staked",,,
That's the word that slipped my mind.

So I guess the final word is,,,
If I really needed to remove the bayonet it could be done,,,
But it would probably have a negative effect on the overall accuracy.

Interesting.

Thanks,,,

Aarond

.
__________________
Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Combat: "A Silent Cry"
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
aarondhgraham is offline  
Old November 5, 2015, 06:51 AM   #9
Shooter2675
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 17, 2013
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Posts: 382
I have always thought the POI change was interesting, but I definitely understand how the harmonics are changed. Unfortunately, I have been unable to use my Mosin Magant M91/30 at the range with a bayonet, as people would probably frown upon that, especially since it's not a folding bayonet.
__________________
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
Shooter2675 is offline  
Old November 5, 2015, 08:14 AM   #10
Screwball
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndsojourn View Post
I think it's illegal in NJ to have it on. (I know you're in a free state...I'm just sayin'.)

The legislators in Trenton think we'll go charging up a hill if they're legal.

No, it isn't illegal in NJ... judging it is a bolt action rifle.

Semi-autos, you just need to make sure it doesn't fall into the "assault weapon" definition. If it doesn't with the bayonet, it is legal.
Screwball is offline  
Old November 6, 2015, 01:38 PM   #11
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,180
Quote:
I think it's illegal in NJ to have it on.
Perfectly legal in NJ, for now
A rifle cant have more than 2 of the evil "assault weapon" features. http://www.njsp.org/info/pdf/firearm...itle13ch54.pdf
Removable magazine in front of trigger
Bayonet
Semi-auto
Handle on foregrip
Folding/collapsible stock

A bayonet would not be legal on a AR style rifle in NJ for example. Also dont forget we have list of "banned weapons" such as the M1 Carbine. It would almost be fun trying to figure out all of our firearm laws if it wasnt for the fact that getting it wrong is a felony.
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
"If you find yourself in a fair fight,,,
Your tactics suck"
- Unknown
BoogieMan is offline  
Old November 7, 2015, 01:59 PM   #12
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 4,556
Quote:
So I guess the final word is,,,
If I really needed to remove the bayonet it could be done,,,
But it would probably have a negative effect on the overall accuracy.
No, I don't think so (part in italics).

I just sent one back, where the bayonet was removed, and the barrel cut/threaded/and re-crowned at the step.
Final length ended up at about 17-1/2" (as measured correctly from the boltface). No range report back yet, I need to email the customer. I'm sure it's a real flamethrower, though.

Anything hanging off or attached to the end of a barrel is going to have a negative effect on harmonics. I can see no way that removing that is going to degrade accuracy. Shift POI- certainly- but my money is on a more accurate rifle. I'll get hold of the customer and try to confirm...
__________________
Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting
07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts
Genuine Cerakote Applicator
www.biggorillagunworks.com
tobnpr is offline  
Old November 7, 2015, 06:06 PM   #13
Gunplummer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2010
Location: South East Pa.
Posts: 3,364
The thought that the Russians put any effort in the study of barrel "Harmonics" affected by the attached bayonet is silly. Their ideas on rifle production were cheap, fast, quantity, rugged, and cheap.
Gunplummer is offline  
Old November 13, 2015, 09:52 AM   #14
Heavy Metal 1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2012
Posts: 239
With my M44 the POI changes if the bayo is extended or folded. I see no reason to remove it. I have a M38 and I don't see any difference between the rifles. Shooting with the bayo exteneded looks wicked.
__________________
The blood runs free, the rain turns red, give me the wine, you keep the bread.
Heavy Metal 1 is offline  
Old November 13, 2015, 11:07 AM   #15
Turftech1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2015
Location: Utah
Posts: 4
I have removed the bayonet on my m44 and on a Chinese 53, for cleaning all the cosmoline out. The screw is either staked or, if it has been rebuilt, may be fastened with lock-tite. Get a bladed screwdriver that fits snuggly into the groove, loosen the screw, and carefully remove the pin. There is a spring that will make it a bit tricky, but not really that hard.

For what it's worth, I think the bayonet is awesome and adds to the overall coolness and military and historical value of the rifle.

My M44 is one of my favorite rifles. My 15 yr old son laughs, because when we go out plinking in the woods, I will grab my M44 over half a dozen rifles that are 5 times more money.
__________________
"Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." - Aristotle

Check out our channel, subscribe if you like it.
Turftech channel, guns, tool reviews, garage fun
Turftech1 is offline  
Old November 13, 2015, 11:08 AM   #16
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 19,658
Quote:
The thought that the Russians put any effort in the study of barrel "Harmonics" affected by the attached bayonet is silly
Actually I don't think it is silly. They do put some study into these things. Not often the same amount we do, or with the same focus, but they do study these things.

Note how the M44s generally shoot to their sights with the bayonet extended. I doubt this is accidental. They may group better with the bayonet removed, I don't know. But all the stories I have heard from M44 owners is that the rifles shoots to a drastically differerent point with the bayonet removed.

The Russians & Soviets were big on fixed bayonets. 91/30 long rifles had bayonets so tightly fitted it was difficult to remove them. This was not "sloppy RUssian manufacture" this was INTENTIONAL. The bayonets were intended to be mounted ALL the time. Making them a very tight fit discouraged casual removal by troops.

We didn't do it that way, and about nobody else did, either, but they did, and did it on purpose, not because of flawed craftsmanship.

Quote:
Their ideas on rifle production were cheap, fast, quantity, rugged, and cheap.
Agreed, this was their philosophy about most of their production. BUT, Russian / Soviet production was & is capable of producing finely finished parts, and does so, for those areas where it is critical.

A "western" nation will produce a finely finished item (rifle, engine, etc) that works. The Soviet system produced working items that were finely finished only where they HAD to be.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old November 14, 2015, 06:47 AM   #17
Gunplummer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2010
Location: South East Pa.
Posts: 3,364
Funny you should mention cars. The Russians never imported a car into this country that I know of. The reason being that they could never pass the safety tests to bring them into this country. There is a big difference between don't want to and can't. They were great copiers (Like the Chinese are now), but there was little innovation going on before they (Russians) collapsed.
Gunplummer is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07950 seconds with 10 queries