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Old December 2, 2009, 03:51 PM   #1
Nero45
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Wow that was a screw up

Well I was going to ask if loading 125 gr lead with Blue dot in 357 mag was wrong but I notced the sticky at the top. I knew there was a problem when I fired 6 and it felt like I was getting concustion. So what can I do with 200 unsafe rounds, pull the lead and try again? Thank you.
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Old December 2, 2009, 05:21 PM   #2
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If you've got loads you know are too warm, then yes, pulling them down is the only thing that makes sense. AFAIK, Alliant issued the warning because too many over-hot loads for that bullet weight in the .357 were in circulation, not the least of which were some of their own. But that's not what the warning says, so anything you do with that information you do at your own risk. Personally, I've had great luck with H110/296 for full power loads in the .357. You just can't load them down significantly with that powder.
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Old December 2, 2009, 06:10 PM   #3
Caboclo
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Uncle Nick, what happens if you load down with 110/296? Squib?

Nero, sorry about the thread hijack. Re disassembling 200 rounds, I know the feeling.
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Old December 2, 2009, 10:43 PM   #4
Lost Sheep
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In gasoline engines, they call it detonation or pinging for mild cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caboclo
Uncle Nick, what happens if you load down with 110/296? Squib?
Caboclo,

In the world of internal ballistics (what happens between primer strike and the bullet exiting the muzzle) it is a well-known but poorly understood phenomenon that when you load a case with a slow-burning powder at less than full power sometimes it works ok and sometimes you get tremendously high pressures.

Some blame the extra free space between powder granules that lets the flame front inside the cartridge case advance faster than normal, igniting all the powder almost at once. Others attribute it to shock waves inside the firearm bouncing back and forth between the base of the bullet and the breech. If you get the timing just right (the theory goes) the reflected waves peak at a certain point inside the firearm. (Imagine a football stadium full of people doing "the wave" in opposite directions. Where the two "waves" meet, the people there naturally would have to jump twice as high.)

It has been very difficult for ballisticians to produce it on demand, so we are left with the fact that it does not occur with fast powders (at full power or low power) and it does not occur with slow powders at full power.

UncleNick, you will have to take it from here, as I have almost exhausted my knowledge on the subject. And all this knowledge is second hand, to boot, but it does pass my B.S. (Basic Skeptic) sniff test.

I did read one post wherein a guy claimed he could reproduce the reflecting shock wave effect, but I cannot recall the location right now and barely understood his description of the process. (I ain't no rocket scientist, but I do like watching'em go up.)

Lost Sheep.

Last edited by Lost Sheep; December 2, 2009 at 10:47 PM. Reason: poor spelling
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Old December 3, 2009, 12:21 PM   #5
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Lost Sheep,

I think you are getting detonation confused with the squib problem with H110/296. Detonation seems to require extreme amounts of empty space in the case. Around 90% empty has been typical in the few reports of it occurring that I've seen. The squib problem in H110/296 can happen when anything over about 10% empty space is in the case. In other words, the case needs to be kept pretty full to stop it from extinguishing. By limiting empty space like that, you increase the pressure the primer imparts along with it ignition spark, and that is apparently critical with this powder. It is also why the higher pressure created by magnum primers is required with it. The problem seems to be peculiar to this powder among pistol powders. Apparently its deterrent coatings are heavy enough that its minimum operating pressure required to sustain burning is around that of the start pressures seen in loads that will ultimately peak at around 28,000 psi and up.

The actual warning on the Hodgdon site is mixed in with their advice for improvising starting loads where none are given. It is as follows:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgdon
For those loads listed where a starting load is not shown, start 10% below the suggested maximum load and then approach maximums carefully, watching for any sign of pressure (difficult extraction, cratered and flattened or blown primers, and unusual recoil). H110 and Winchester 296 loads should not be reduced more than 3%.

Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%.
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Old December 3, 2009, 07:10 PM   #6
warnerwh
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I feel for you. That will take a while to take them all apart but at least the components are still good.
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