dumb mistake

NHSHOOTER · September 28, 2013, 07:37 AM

Recently I was loading imr 4895 and didnt empty my powder charger when I was done, mistakenly put about 120 grains of imr 4895 into my 748 jug...The 748 was about full, is it too contaminated to use? I know..real dumb mistake..

warhwkbb · September 28, 2013, 08:47 AM

Your Flower Garden will like it...

jwrowland77 · September 28, 2013, 08:50 AM

On the upside, your flowers and lawn will really thrive.

Sorry about the mistake though. In today's world, it's hard to find powders.

SL1 · September 28, 2013, 09:20 AM

Can you find a sieve that will separate the 4895 from the 748?

SL1

**44 AMP** · September 28, 2013, 09:40 AM

you have created a physical mixture, like gravel. But not a chemical one (provided you don't USE the mixture).

4895 is a stick powder, 748 is ball. You should be able to separate them, although it might seem to be picking flypoop out of pepper.

jwrowland77 · September 28, 2013, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SL1

Can you find a sieve that will separate the 4895 from the 748?

SL1

I didn't think about this. As long as it is small enough for the 748 to pass through and not the 4895. Of course, if you do sieve it, I'd still go through it was a small tooth comb to ensure no 4895 is mixed in.

Claude Clay · September 28, 2013, 10:33 AM

...remember Mr Science (what was his name?) on old tv?

perhaps as the 2 powders have different densities if you were to pour the mixture into a clear ~5" wide container and than place it on your vibrator, or even tap the bottom with your fingers repeatedly, the ball will work it way to the bottom. than carefully pour off the flake.
worth a try as right you have fertilizer...

snuffy · September 28, 2013, 10:51 AM

Since both powders are similar in burn rate, I'd just load it to WW-748 charge weights and go shooting. But that's just me! I'll catch a bunch of flack for suggesting this, but it would work.

What size is the 748 jug? 1 pound or 8? 120 grains of 4895 is a tiny amount compared to even 1 pound of 748. 120---7000 grains.

A sieve would catch MOST of the 4895, but some of the skinny sticks would orient end ways and slip through the sieve. You would have to do it more than once. Look in the housewares section of a hardware store for screens, sieves. One source would be a spatter lid for keeping grease from spraying when frying something in a pan. It allows the steam to escape, but blocks the flying out. It's a fine weave aluminum screen.

Back about 10 years ago, I bought some surplus powder form Jeff Bartlet,(www.gibrass.com. It was WC-860. It had a small amount of stick/extruded powder mixed in with the fine ball powder. I simply poured the stuff,(8 pounds), on the frying pan grease lid. The WC-860 passed through easily, the course stick powder didn't. I never even bothered to say anything about it to him, just corrected the problem. It's a pull down powder from 20 MM ammo, useful in 300 mag and heavy bullet 30-06. Apparently some other ammo was pulled and dumped, but it wasn't the same powder, a stick/extruded type.

RC20 · September 28, 2013, 11:19 AM

A mistake yes, dumb no though it seems like it in the heat of the moment.
Dumb would be to proceed without caution and further thought.

You have the time to work this out as its not a burning issue needing an immediate decision and approach (pun intended to hopefully lighten this up and get perspective out of it).

How big a jug? 1lb or 8 lb?

8 lb I might consider using it. 1 lb no (percentages huge change).

Weight the end results so you have an idea how how much is recovered.

Despite the above post, you don't know how the ignition will progress with that mixture.

Hornady does have a factory mix but it has to be very carefully controlled and they only offer the full tilt version from the factory.

Sifting it or filtering it would be the thing to do though it depends on how much work vs how much is actually in the jug as to worth.

If no powder available then time spent is worth it. Various Kitchen sieves might be the ticket. A few missed balls would not be an issue but you have to do some quality control checks (spill out some of what you think is good on a white paper and separate it and see if anything is in between.)

Its one of the hardest things to do is make a judgment on the risk vs consequences.

We have our emotions pushing us not to waste something when we are not sure there is a risk so we go with the not waste. You have to look at it as a worst case and then make the decision.

In my line of work I have dumped out entire 5 gallons buckets of oil that I was not sure someone had not contaminated.

I also had some guys dump 5 gallons of contaminated diesel into a good tank because they did not want to waste it. Has cost us thousand of dollars to fix that and if it had been an underground tank it would have been huge.

LSU · September 28, 2013, 12:59 PM

I'd go with RC 20's comments about dumping the oil when in doubt.

If you do a risk/cost analysis, that is: the risk of damage to yourself, other shooters and your firearm versus the cost of the "maybe" ruined powder - I'd err on the side of caution and go feed the flowers.

I think you might be able to "sort" the two powders but I wouldn't do it.

I know finding powder is tough and I suspect you wanted to kick yourself when you realized your mistake but why take the risk?

Let us know what you decide.

Thanks.

**Mike Irwin** · September 28, 2013, 03:25 PM

If you have a small, battery powered vacuum, the kind you use to clean computer keyboards, you have a way out.

SLOWLY vacuum small amounts of powder out of the jug at a time. Don't pick up too much at any one time just in case something untoward happens, and frequently empty the vacuum to check on the powder that you're getting up. I'd do this outside just in case.

You could use a pen light to check on your progress.

When you're getting all ball powder, you'll know you've reached the end of your ordeal.

To be on the safe side, give the vacuum a good rubdown with a dryer sheet, inside AND out, to cut down on the possibility of static build up and discharge.

g.willikers · September 28, 2013, 05:18 PM

Even if it's a 1lb jar, you realize that you're talking about 120 grains of 4895, in a container with nearly 7,000 grains of 748.

David Bachelder · September 28, 2013, 10:12 PM

I think I'd vote with Snuffy.

mehavey · September 28, 2013, 11:28 PM

I just ran QuickLoad with equal weights of 4895 and W748 in a 30-06 under a 165gr GrndSlam.
No appreciable difference in either velocity or pressure. Dead heat.
(Add to that only a 1.7% contamination factor)

The purist in me sames dump it.
The engineer says shake it up each time and load it.

RC20 · September 29, 2013, 11:33 AM

I wish he would weigh (another pun) back in.

8 lb I might try it (I am struggling with this one!) 1 lb I would sort or pitch but as its a full per the OP, thats a lot of waste. Also have found at times a bit of powder hung up in the dispensers that I clear carefully and suspect I have had mixed in the past and no bad things (more struggling)

Still would weight what I got out be sure I had close to the whole 120 out.

As for vacuuming, keep in mind that a DC motor has brushes and those of course spark. Might be ok but would look at it closely.

I would think the 4895 would be fairly easy to pick out in a 1 lb on white paper in a pan or some such.

NHSHOOTER · September 29, 2013, 04:49 PM

To let all of you know, it is a 1 lb container of 748 almost chuck full. I am thinking to go with snuffy and David B. The burn rates are very similar and I dont load max loads anyways. and 7000 grains compared to 120 the amount of 4895 in each load will be so minimal as to almost be non existent as long as I keep it mixed very well. If you never hear from me again, " chuckle" you will know I was wrong but I will keep you all informed. I will load up some 748's to shoot this coming weekend and give you a report by this time next sunday. Thank you all for your feedback and be sure I will try to never, I did say try to never make this same mistake again.

Dave P · September 29, 2013, 05:10 PM

Always keep just one powder on your bench.

MJFlores · September 29, 2013, 09:55 PM

I don't know...if we're talking about a pound...I'd toss it. We're talking roughly $20 to $25? Use it as a learning experience. You'll never do it again.

BuckRub · September 29, 2013, 11:13 PM

Everyone whose done any amount has done something similar. I've never done that one yet but I do only have one powder on the bench at any given time and soon after every stopping point I got to where I take my powder dump and dump all powder back in container every night even if I'm gonna be reloading same combos for the next 5 days.

cornbush · September 30, 2013, 06:04 PM

i agree with snuffy

dwhite · October 1, 2013, 03:55 PM

I agree with snuffy.

You'd probably get the same amount of potential variation
running a magnum versus standard primer.

Burn it up.

All the Best,
D. White

Strafer Gott · October 1, 2013, 04:13 PM

This is so easy, I don't know why no one else thought of it.
Get a big bucket of water. Empty the jug. After the stick powder sinks, scoop off the powder that floats. Dump it down the toilet. Refill the bucket and empty it down the toilet as well.

Now you have safely separated the powder.

Have a safe day!

NHSHOOTER · October 1, 2013, 06:01 PM

Strafer, I dont know why nobody else thought of that, simple and effective..

Magnum Wheel Man · October 2, 2013, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Always keep just one powder on your bench.

don't try this... "literally"... I did something stupid the other day myself...

I'm still setting up my loading benches in my new gun room... & have parts & pieces

laying around, & still doing a little "wood butchering" on some wall racks... I had a paper bag, that had an empty RCBS JR powder measure & disks in it... I took down my regular RCBS powder measure, & for some reason, I had not emptied the Unique out of it ( maybe 1/3 of a measure full )... I was looking for a place to put it, & stuck it in the paper bag, as I thought it would hold the measure in an upright position... so... just the other day, I decided I'd move that bag with the JR measure in it, to my other loading bench, picked up the bag, & the regular powder measure dumped out of the bag, spreading Unique all over my bench top ( mixed in with a bunch of wood shavings from my last wall gun rack project )

so I am just keeping "one" powder "on my bench" unfortunately its now mixed with wood shavings from the Contender barrel wall racks I completed a couple days ago

I think I'll put that mixture in the patio garden pots, & let it "over winter"

schmellba99 · October 2, 2013, 09:36 AM

I'm with snuffy.

If you dumped it in and most of the stick is sitting right on top, I'd make an effort at scooping out what I could without getting too terribly involved.

Worst case is that you have a 1.7% "contaminated" mix of two powders that have almost identical burn rates. If you can remove even half of what you put in easily, you are below 1%, and so long as you mix it up good, you are down to an almost unmeasurable amount of "contamination".

I did the same thing a while back - pulled some loaded rounds after a ladder test that I had not shot and wasn't paying attention nearly as carefully as I should have when I grabbed the jug of powder to dump them into. I dumped about 80 grains or so of H335 into about 5 lbs of Varget. I wasn't about to dispose of 5 lbs of varget over 80 grains of a somewhat similar burn rate powder. I shook the jug up with each and every use and had nary an issue with shooting.

Obviously your call, but you are not the first, nor will you be the last, to do such a thing.

September 28, 2013, 07:37 AM	#1
NHSHOOTER Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2012 Location: Concord NH Posts: 1,002	dumb mistake Recently I was loading imr 4895 and didnt empty my powder charger when I was done, mistakenly put about 120 grains of imr 4895 into my 748 jug...The 748 was about full, is it too contaminated to use? I know..real dumb mistake..

September 28, 2013, 09:40 AM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	you have created a physical mixture, like gravel. But not a chemical one (provided you don't USE the mixture). 4895 is a stick powder, 748 is ball. You should be able to separate them, although it might seem to be picking flypoop out of pepper. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

September 28, 2013, 10:33 AM	#7
Claude Clay Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2007 Location: CT Posts: 325	...remember Mr Science (what was his name?) on old tv? perhaps as the 2 powders have different densities if you were to pour the mixture into a clear ~5" wide container and than place it on your vibrator, or even tap the bottom with your fingers repeatedly, the ball will work it way to the bottom. than carefully pour off the flake. worth a try as right you have fertilizer... __________________ NRA Instructor -- NRA Basic Pistol & Re-Loading Make a fire for a man and you warm him for the night Light him on fire and you warm him for the rest of his life

September 28, 2013, 10:51 AM	#8
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Since both powders are similar in burn rate, I'd just load it to WW-748 charge weights and go shooting. But that's just me! I'll catch a bunch of flack for suggesting this, but it would work. What size is the 748 jug? 1 pound or 8? 120 grains of 4895 is a tiny amount compared to even 1 pound of 748. 120---7000 grains. A sieve would catch MOST of the 4895, but some of the skinny sticks would orient end ways and slip through the sieve. You would have to do it more than once. Look in the housewares section of a hardware store for screens, sieves. One source would be a spatter lid for keeping grease from spraying when frying something in a pan. It allows the steam to escape, but blocks the flying out. It's a fine weave aluminum screen. Back about 10 years ago, I bought some surplus powder form Jeff Bartlet,(www.gibrass.com. It was WC-860. It had a small amount of stick/extruded powder mixed in with the fine ball powder. I simply poured the stuff,(8 pounds), on the frying pan grease lid. The WC-860 passed through easily, the course stick powder didn't. I never even bothered to say anything about it to him, just corrected the problem. It's a pull down powder from 20 MM ammo, useful in 300 mag and heavy bullet 30-06. Apparently some other ammo was pulled and dumped, but it wasn't the same powder, a stick/extruded type. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

September 28, 2013, 11:19 AM	#9
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	A mistake yes, dumb no though it seems like it in the heat of the moment. Dumb would be to proceed without caution and further thought. You have the time to work this out as its not a burning issue needing an immediate decision and approach (pun intended to hopefully lighten this up and get perspective out of it). How big a jug? 1lb or 8 lb? 8 lb I might consider using it. 1 lb no (percentages huge change). Weight the end results so you have an idea how how much is recovered. Despite the above post, you don't know how the ignition will progress with that mixture. Hornady does have a factory mix but it has to be very carefully controlled and they only offer the full tilt version from the factory. Sifting it or filtering it would be the thing to do though it depends on how much work vs how much is actually in the jug as to worth. If no powder available then time spent is worth it. Various Kitchen sieves might be the ticket. A few missed balls would not be an issue but you have to do some quality control checks (spill out some of what you think is good on a white paper and separate it and see if anything is in between.) Its one of the hardest things to do is make a judgment on the risk vs consequences. We have our emotions pushing us not to waste something when we are not sure there is a risk so we go with the not waste. You have to look at it as a worst case and then make the decision. In my line of work I have dumped out entire 5 gallons buckets of oil that I was not sure someone had not contaminated. I also had some guys dump 5 gallons of contaminated diesel into a good tank because they did not want to waste it. Has cost us thousand of dollars to fix that and if it had been an underground tank it would have been huge. Last edited by RC20; September 28, 2013 at 11:37 AM.

September 28, 2013, 08:47 AM	#2
warhwkbb Member Join Date: September 1, 2011 Posts: 32	Your Flower Garden will like it...

September 28, 2013, 08:50 AM	#3
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	On the upside, your flowers and lawn will really thrive. Sorry about the mistake though. In today's world, it's hard to find powders.

September 28, 2013, 09:20 AM	#4
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	Can you find a sieve that will separate the 4895 from the 748? SL1

September 28, 2013, 12:59 PM	#10
LSU Member Join Date: May 12, 2013 Posts: 38	I'd go with RC 20's comments about dumping the oil when in doubt. If you do a risk/cost analysis, that is: the risk of damage to yourself, other shooters and your firearm versus the cost of the "maybe" ruined powder - I'd err on the side of caution and go feed the flowers. I think you might be able to "sort" the two powders but I wouldn't do it. I know finding powder is tough and I suspect you wanted to kick yourself when you realized your mistake but why take the risk? Let us know what you decide. Thanks.

September 28, 2013, 03:25 PM	#11
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,382	If you have a small, battery powered vacuum, the kind you use to clean computer keyboards, you have a way out. SLOWLY vacuum small amounts of powder out of the jug at a time. Don't pick up too much at any one time just in case something untoward happens, and frequently empty the vacuum to check on the powder that you're getting up. I'd do this outside just in case. You could use a pen light to check on your progress. When you're getting all ball powder, you'll know you've reached the end of your ordeal. To be on the safe side, give the vacuum a good rubdown with a dryer sheet, inside AND out, to cut down on the possibility of static build up and discharge. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 28, 2013, 05:18 PM	#12
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Even if it's a 1lb jar, you realize that you're talking about 120 grains of 4895, in a container with nearly 7,000 grains of 748. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

September 28, 2013, 10:12 PM	#13
David Bachelder Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2011 Location: Trinity, Texas Posts: 636	I think I'd vote with Snuffy. __________________ David Bachelder Trinity, Texas I load, 9mm Luger, 38 and 40 S&W, 38 Special, 357Magnum, 45ACP, 45 Colt, 223, 300 AAC, 243 and 30-06

September 28, 2013, 11:28 PM	#14
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,886	I just ran QuickLoad with equal weights of 4895 and W748 in a 30-06 under a 165gr GrndSlam. No appreciable difference in either velocity or pressure. Dead heat. (Add to that only a 1.7% contamination factor) The purist in me sames dump it. The engineer says shake it up each time and load it.

September 29, 2013, 11:33 AM	#15
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I wish he would weigh (another pun) back in. 8 lb I might try it (I am struggling with this one!) 1 lb I would sort or pitch but as its a full per the OP, thats a lot of waste. Also have found at times a bit of powder hung up in the dispensers that I clear carefully and suspect I have had mixed in the past and no bad things (more struggling) Still would weight what I got out be sure I had close to the whole 120 out. As for vacuuming, keep in mind that a DC motor has brushes and those of course spark. Might be ok but would look at it closely. I would think the 4895 would be fairly easy to pick out in a 1 lb on white paper in a pan or some such.

September 29, 2013, 04:49 PM	#16
NHSHOOTER Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2012 Location: Concord NH Posts: 1,002	To let all of you know, it is a 1 lb container of 748 almost chuck full. I am thinking to go with snuffy and David B. The burn rates are very similar and I dont load max loads anyways. and 7000 grains compared to 120 the amount of 4895 in each load will be so minimal as to almost be non existent as long as I keep it mixed very well. If you never hear from me again, " chuckle" you will know I was wrong but I will keep you all informed. I will load up some 748's to shoot this coming weekend and give you a report by this time next sunday. Thank you all for your feedback and be sure I will try to never, I did say try to never make this same mistake again.

September 29, 2013, 05:10 PM	#17
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	Always keep just one powder on your bench. __________________ I think this country is screwed.

September 29, 2013, 09:55 PM	#18
MJFlores Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2013 Posts: 539	I don't know...if we're talking about a pound...I'd toss it. We're talking roughly $20 to $25? Use it as a learning experience. You'll never do it again.

September 29, 2013, 11:13 PM	#19
BuckRub Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,046	Everyone whose done any amount has done something similar. I've never done that one yet but I do only have one powder on the bench at any given time and soon after every stopping point I got to where I take my powder dump and dump all powder back in container every night even if I'm gonna be reloading same combos for the next 5 days.

September 30, 2013, 06:04 PM	#20
cornbush Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: The retarded place below Idaho Posts: 1,408	i agree with snuffy __________________ The best shot I ever made was an accident

October 1, 2013, 03:55 PM	#21
dwhite Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2007 Location: Wake County, N. Carolina Posts: 379	I agree with snuffy. You'd probably get the same amount of potential variation running a magnum versus standard primer. Burn it up. All the Best, D. White __________________ 10th Amendment - The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

October 1, 2013, 04:13 PM	#22
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	This is so easy, I don't know why no one else thought of it. Get a big bucket of water. Empty the jug. After the stick powder sinks, scoop off the powder that floats. Dump it down the toilet. Refill the bucket and empty it down the toilet as well. Now you have safely separated the powder. Have a safe day!

October 1, 2013, 06:01 PM	#23
NHSHOOTER Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2012 Location: Concord NH Posts: 1,002	Strafer, I dont know why nobody else thought of that, simple and effective..

October 2, 2013, 09:36 AM	#25
schmellba99 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 803	I'm with snuffy. If you dumped it in and most of the stick is sitting right on top, I'd make an effort at scooping out what I could without getting too terribly involved. Worst case is that you have a 1.7% "contaminated" mix of two powders that have almost identical burn rates. If you can remove even half of what you put in easily, you are below 1%, and so long as you mix it up good, you are down to an almost unmeasurable amount of "contamination". I did the same thing a while back - pulled some loaded rounds after a ladder test that I had not shot and wasn't paying attention nearly as carefully as I should have when I grabbed the jug of powder to dump them into. I dumped about 80 grains or so of H335 into about 5 lbs of Varget. I wasn't about to dispose of 5 lbs of varget over 80 grains of a somewhat similar burn rate powder. I shook the jug up with each and every use and had nary an issue with shooting. Obviously your call, but you are not the first, nor will you be the last, to do such a thing.