OAL for Missouri .45 bullet IDP#4

[big 76]

I just received my shipmet of Missouri Bullet Compny .45 200 grain IDP #4 bullets. I have never loaded cast bullets and finding accurate reliable information has been a challenge. None of the three reloading books I have contain data for 200 grain cast bullet. I am wanting to load with 4.5 grains of Bullseye. That seems to be a pretty common load from what I can find. First does that sound correct? My biggest question is how do I determine the OAL or seating depth for the round? I have read the .45 is very sensitive to seating the bullet to deep and raising the pressure. My main concern is saftey. Thanks for your help.

[Jim Watson]

I have not loaded the type, but the basic considerations are that the loaded round has to fit the magazine, fit the chamber, and feed from magazine to chamber.
I would start out with the gun barrel beside the loading press and seat a bullet to where it would just chamber fully. It is ok for a cast bullet to touch the rifling. Then see if it would go in the magazine. Then see if it would feed.
I recall that the type comes out a bit short on OAL but you are not at a maximum powder charge and the deeper seating won't hurt.
Maybe somebody who has used the style can specify an OAL number so you won't have to actually make adjustments.

[big 76]

Does anyone use these bullets. I would really like to get the overall length to ensure I don't seat the bullet to deep.

[RamSlammer]

I loaded 500 of those last month and have already gone through about 200 of them. The OAL I used was 1.210". (Just barely below the groove.) Cycled well in 3 different 1911's and a P345.

Also, Used 4.2 gr. Bullseye which chrono'd 760 fps average . . . I wanted a bit faster. Determined that my next run with this bullet will be with 4.5 gr. so I think your charge weight is right on.

[zippy13]

Lead bullets are pretty forgiving as long as you stay within the window. I've loaded several slightly different cast bullets in the 200 gr neighborhood; however, I've not used the one you selected (Missouri IDP #4-XD). At first glance it looks like it's designed for the .45 LC not the .45 ACP. As a rule of thumb, you want the end of brass beyond the lube groove and before the shoulder edge. Either situation is an invitation to over crimping.

For a load recipe, most likely you'll have to make due with the listings for 200 gr plain-base lead SWCs. When pressures become critical, loading manuals typically give the CAOL. I checked several 200 gr listed loadings (for Speer, Lyman, and Hornady) and this is not the case. Your CAOL will be governed by how well the loaded rounds function in the magazine and across the feed ramp. My last batch has an CAOL of 1.261 (which is well within the 1.200 - 1.275 range) with the end of brass centered on the forward band. Hopefully your Missouri bullets will provide similar results.

Edward A. Matunas, in the "From the Loading Bench" column in an old The American Rifleman closed his remarks with, "It is advisable to provide a cartridge overall length as close to the maximum of 1.275" as practical. This will keep feeding reliable in most pistols."

RamSlammer's 4.2 gr of Bullseye is within the listed data for 200 gr plain-base lead SWCs in the .45 ACP, and 4.5 is at the upper limit. You may wish to start with a lighter charge and work your way up to 4.5.

[mongoose33]

I'm running those at 1.225 OVER WST.

They're excellent bullets.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I'm running those at 1.225 under WST.

I'm still tryin' to figure out how ya'll shoot them when you put the powder above the bullet.... J/K

I have found the best COL for all my lead bullet loadings is to have the cartridge headspace on the bullet, and not the case mouth (for semi-autos). Below is a post from UncleNick..it is an excellent diagram. You will also have to check and make sure they fit in your magazine and feed reliably, of course. Good luck!

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...94&postcount=5

[mongoose33]

I'm still tryin' to figure out how ya'll shoot them when you put the powder above the bullet.... J/K

I spent much of the day reloading, and was relaxing w/ a Jameson afterwards when I wrote that. I've since edited it for clarity.

I have found the best COL for all my lead bullet loadings is to have the cartridge headspace on the bullet, and not the case mouth (for semi-autos). Below is a post from UncleNick..it is an excellent diagram. You will also have to check and make sure they fit in your magazine and feed reliably, of course. Good luck!

Doesn't that presume some fairly accurate OAL consistency?

I'd be a bit concerned about headspacing on a lead bullet given that the bullet itself may not be completely consistent; I generally have a tolerance of a couple thousandths at least in seating lead bullets on my progressive.

[RamSlammer]

Guys, Zippy nailed it in that these bullets have a .45 Colt profile moreso than ACP. The crimping groove is setup for a roll crimp and has a bevel angling toward the base. Also it's a short, fat bullet profile without a whole bunch of space below that crimping groove to get a bite with a taper crimp. They're .535" long and past the bevel of the crimping groove, there's only .21" to work with and not much lead above the lube groove. The 1.210" OAL worked for me, but I just don't see much room to move it up before getting into the lube.

Here's a pic .. .

[dsv424]

For those bullets I have 2 different recipes. For a light load I use 4.2g of Bulseye and for a more powerful load I use 4.6g of Bullseye. The OAL I use is 1.220. Both are very good recipes.

[steve4102]

Sorry UncleNick, I stole your photo.

[big 76]

Thanks for all yalls help. I will start at 4.2 grains of Bullseye and see what the 1.220 looks like in the barrel.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Doesn't that presume some fairly accurate OAL consistency?

I'd be a bit concerned about headspacing on a lead bullet given that the bullet itself may not be completely consistent; I generally have a tolerance of a couple thousandths at least in seating lead bullets on my progressive.

Your COL should be fairly consistent. These are lead bullet we are talking about here...they will swage a bit of you have them loaded a little too long. The slide will have enough energy to push it into the lands a bit if too long. Too long and the gun will not go into battery. So, if you follow the diagram, you should have no problems. Also, taper crimps are not meant to "bite" into the bullets...especially lead bullets. A taper crimp is used merely to push the flare back in from when the case was belled to accept the bullet. The tension from the case body is plenty to hold the bullet in place, as long as you have not over-belled the case mouth. Those bullets will work just fine...just make sure you don't overcrimp. If you overcrimp, the bullet will be swaged down to a smaller size and the brass will have a tendancy to spring back a bit, thus making a loose fit. The idea here is not to distort the bullet. Good luck and Happy Easter!

[parttime]

I have loaded 300 plus rounds of that bullet with an COL of 1.200. I have been using 4.5 gr. of bullseye up to 5 grains that run an average of 750 fps from a Kimber ultra carry with a 3 inch barrel. I have not had any failure to feed or fires. 4 inch groups at 25 yards.

[doctruptwn]

I have just completed loading 500 of the said bullets, From Mo. Bullet Co. 5.1 gr of Unique, And 5.1 gr of W231 both at 1.190. Very accurate, No signs of overpressure, No leading, Some smoke with the Unique. Very happy with this load.

[zippy13]

RamSlammer, mongoose33, dsv424, parttime and doctruptwn

Help me guys, is there something obvious that I'm missing?
I'm curious, those of you who've loaded with the Missouri Bullet Co's IDP #4-XD:
• Why did you select this particular style (over their more conventional IDP #1 or Bullyseye #1)? And,
• Knowing what you know now, will you stay with them, go to a #1, or something else?

[MissouriBullet]

It's because Springfield XD's will not feed semi-wadcutters. So, I found a bullet mould set which produces bullets that will feed in that gun every single time. Hence, the "XD" in the appellation.

Brad

[RamSlammer]

RamSlammer, mongoose33, dsv424, parttime and doctruptwn

Help me guys, is there something obvious that I'm missing?
I'm curious, those of you who've loaded with the Missouri Bullet Co's IDP #4-XD:
• Why did you select this particular style (over their more conventional IDP #1 or Bullyseye #1)? And,
• Knowing what you know now, will you stay with them, go to a #1, or something else?

I first got some in a sample pack and found they were dimensionally very close to the 200 gr XTP JHP's I load frequently. Ordered some more to make a less costly practice load which would be similar to the XTP's. (I find there's no need to adjust my press (other than adjust the powder charge) when going from XTP's to these. Since I use a Lee Turret press, I can just leave a turret cartridge setup for that combo. I like the convenience and will probably keep the IDP#4 "XD"'s around.

[zippy13]

Thanks for the head's up, Brad and RS.

[big 76]

I loades up 50 rounds with 4.2 grains of Bullseye COAL 1.22 and took them to the range today. They functioned flawlessly in my XD45. Thanks for all yalls help. I hope to be the experienced reloader who can answer questions one day.

[zippy13]

big76, in your OP you neglected to mention that you were loading for the Springfield XD. I don't think I was alone in thinking that you were loading for a conventional 1911-type pistol. Glad to hear your success report.