Berry's Plated Bullets

[leftsideshooter]

Would anybody have re-loading info. on Berry's 185gr. HBRN (hollow backed round nose) for .45 acp? I have been using Titegroup, W231 and Bullseye for 230gr. Round Nose. Just wanted to try the 185gr. What is recommended c.o.l.?

Thank's
Paul

[Beltfire]

I did not have much luck with 231 and the 185 hbrn. It may have been the Wolf primers. I don't think they are hot enough to light up 231 well. I switched to Power Pistol and got better results But the wolf primers are so soft they ruined the bolt face in my Tommygun. This tight market has a lot of people shooting things they would not normally shoot. I load 6.9 gr of PP and Berrys 185 gr hbrn. A lot of guys use Bullseye. Try that first.
My friend swears by Universal Clays but then he shoots the 230 gr and Win. primers.

[srsmith]

This is measured data from my 5" 1911 with TG & the Berry 185 HBRN.
Loaded with a Dillon SDB. Winchester LP primers.

Overall Length: 1.263" same as the standard 230gr RN

5.2 gr Titegroup gives 820 fps this is very mild, just cycles the gun
5.8 gr Titegroup gives 900 fps nice shooting load, not max in my gun

As always, check several sources of data.
Start low and work up.

Be safe and have fun !

-steve

[Longdayjake]

I have never shot berry's so I can't say how good they are, but part of my business (I sell bullets) is to find out about the available products for sale. I have heard a lot of bad things about berry's. Most specifically that the plating is brittle and can't be crimped. I have also heard that they are not very uniform. All of this is heresay as I have not shot them myself, but there seems to be a lot of negative things to say about them. For that reason I sell powerbond bullets. They are not to be compared in quality. I have customers reporting their best groups ever with powerbond. Their plating is thicker and softer so it can be crimped without problems. I shoot their .357 bullets at hot magnum velocities with GREAT results. I am not sure if the price is comparable or not, but the next time you buy bullets you may consider powerbond bullets. I know this sounds like a sales pitch so to prove I just want to help I will give you other places you can buy them from.

Powerbond has their own website
Cabela's now stocks them
You can find them on gunbroker (EXPENSIVE)
I sell them. Check my signature.

The one downside to powerbond is that they just started making the bullets in March. The only load data that is around that I know of is on my forum www.thetestfire.com.

As far as 231. I see no reason that it shouldnt work just fine. Maybe the wolf primers made a difference. Hmmm. curious.

[TRguy]

I have never shot berry's so I can't say how good they are, but part of my business (I sell bullets) is to find out about the available products for sale. I have heard a lot of bad things about berry's. Most specifically that the plating is brittle and can't be crimped. I have also heard that they are not very uniform. All of this is heresay as I have not shot them myself, but there seems to be a lot of negative things to say about them. For that reason I sell powerbond bullets.

Hummmm heresay huh? Then why mention it? Negative heresay is about like gossip.

You could write that statement another way and see what it says to you?

I have not slept with your wife so I cant say how good she is, BUT part of what I do (I sleep with married women) is to find out what married women are available to sleep with. (Now Partner) I have HEARD a lot of bad things about your wife. Most specifically she is sleeping around and not very good at it. I also heard she is with doing it with more than one and doing it differently each time. (Now see here) All of this is heresay as I have not slept with her myself, but there seems to be a lot of negative things to say about her. For that reason I am sticking with sleeping with Jerry's wife (You know, your neighbor).

That said I HAVE and DO shoot Berry's but not exclusively. I do when I get them on sale. Like most things I buy.

I reloaded 500 the other week 9mm plated 115 RN

I shot on two occasions since as always with Berry's they shoot accurate and fine. I am not a Berry's advocate but they always have shot well for me over the last few years.

[srsmith]

I have been shooting Berry's plated bullets for 6 years.
This is many hundreds of 45 ACP and 41 mag bullets.
Accuracy is better than I can shoot.

My 45 feeds best with RN bullets, so I use the Berry 185, 200 and 230 gr RN.
They all run just fine with the same OAL.

No crimping issues. (Assuming the crimp die is adjusted correctly.)
For the 45, all you need to do is straighten out the case.
I crimp the 41 a little harder without problems. This is *not* a really aggressive crimp like what is needed with a full power H110 load on a jacketed bullet.

As always, you should collect data from a variety of sources and decide what to believe.

Be safe and have fun !

-steve

[Beltfire]

TRguy. Loved the responce and your wife too. LOL.
45ACP is not supposed to be crimped as they headspace off the front end of the case. The crimping die is supposed to be set just tight enough to remove any bell that your process has produced to aide in bullet seating. I have used Berrys in 9mm and 45acp for a couple years and I am pleased with the results.
Subgun match today. Fun, Fun

[Longdayjake]

Hummmm heresay huh? Then why mention it? Negative heresay is about like gossip.

So sorry to have offended you with my gossip. All I know is that I have had a TON of customers tell me that they HATE berry's bullets. The reason I said it was to offer another option IF the berry's didn't work out. I stated facts like powerbond bullets have a thicker plating and can take a crimp. I am sure berry's bullets are just fine for many people, but many of my customers hate berry's but love Powerbond. I really just wanted to help. Also, if you love berry's enough to compare them to your wife then you need help (or a better wife).

[awaveritt]

All I know is that I have had a TON of customers tell me that they HATE berry's bullets

1 ton / average 185 lb. person = 10.81 customers. Is that about right?

What, exactly, do they "HATE" about Berrys?

FWIW, I just went thru my first box of 250 for 9mm and I was perfectly satisified with accuracy, feeding, and economy.

[Longdayjake]

What, exactly, do they "HATE" about Berrys?

Okay here is the list as it was given to me.

1. Brittle plating that can't take normal crimps
2. Cannot shoot them fast without the plating coming off.
3. Not uniform in diameter or shape of nose.
4. Pieces of plating getting stuck in barrel.
5. Hollow points don't expand.
6. Issues get worse in cold weather.
7. They don't do well out of carbines.

Obviously, Berry's bullets are good enough for hundreds of people or they wouldn't be in business. They have a place in the shooting community. But as far as plated bullets go, they are just one of a handful of companies that make plated bullets. Of all the companies that make them, I have heard way more bad things about Berrys bullets than any other plated bullet. That includes rainier, xtreme, and powerbond. I know there are a couple others, but I have heard absolutley nothing at all about them. I sell about 150k bullets a month. I research more about different bullets every day than most casual shooters do in a lifetime. I talk to more people that shoot different bullets every day than most people do in a lifetime. I personally believe that powerbond bullets will beat berry's at anything. Hands down. I have a customer shooting the powerbond 45 230 grain bullets out of a 45 long colt lever action at about 1700 fps with great results. Do you think Berry's can do that? As far as I have been able to test safely, Powerbond bullets have no limits as far as velocity.

Here is some of the stuff I have looked at regarding berry's bullets.


http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-136285.html

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq.aspx?q=13&c=1

There's plenty more if you look for it.

[Sidewinder72]

I have bought Berrys double struck bullets and was no better than the hardcast I had been shooting. I stick with hard cast and jacketed bullets with no problems. Load information is to load just like lead bullets.

[TRguy]

Well you admit you have had no, none, nada personal experience with Berry's.

You even reference a thread from some yahoo about keyholing at 10 yds using Berry's. That archived thread you referenced, the OP never states the powder charge used or the powder or primer.

We have NO idea if he loaded the plated bullet as if it were a lead bullet as he should.

Mistakes I have seen with noobs, is mistakenly loading plated as if it were FMJ or HP Jacketed.

The increased velocity literally shoots the lead out of the plating causing inaccurate results and or keyholing.

Just maybe me but strikes me odd that you come in stating you have no personal experience with Berry's and promote your powerbond, yet you rattle off bashing Berry's on heresay.

I buy want is most economical for me, so definitely no Berry homer here, just observing.

....just cause it's on the internets doesn't make it so. If it does make it so, I think I saw a thread that prior to being Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi was a village idiot....oh wait, that is true.

Carry on.

[Longdayjake]

Just maybe me but strikes me odd that you come in stating you have no personal experience with Berry's and promote your powerbond, yet you rattle off bashing Berry's on heresay.

I did not originally post to bash berrys. I posted because someone mentioned that they had not so good results with W231 and 185 grain berry's. It may have been a powder problem or maybe even a bullet issue. I posted to offer an alternative IF, and I repeat, IF the berry's didn't work out.
What you consider to be bashing was my response to someone asking what it was that my customers hated about berry's. I was simply answering his question.

I personally believe Powerbond bullets to be much superior simply because you can do stuff with them that Berry's themselves say not to do with their bullets.

You say so yourself that berry's has a problem...

The increased velocity literally shoots the lead out of the plating causing inaccurate results and or keyholing.

POWERBOND DOES NOT SUFFER FROM THIS MANUFACTURING DEFECT!!!!!! And yes it is a defect.

The thread I posted as an example has more than just one person commenting on their quality. Some good, some bad. The other site that I linked is directly from Berry's home page. They don't call it a defect for the plating to peel off at high velocities, but if other companies can make a plated bullet that doesn't do this then you can logically deduce that berry's are inferior. They also restrict the kind of crimp you can use.

You may get mad at me for posting these things without having actually shot them myself, but why would I spend my money on what many experienced reloaders refer to as an inferior bullet just to make sure that they really suck? Like I said before, berry's are just fine for a lot of people. Powerbond just doesn't suffer from the same issues as berry's and other plated bullets do so I choose to promote what I find to be a better product. Had I not actually proven that powerbond can do these things that berry's cannot I would not have said anything. I have personally tested powerbond bullets to what would be considered the extreme for any bullet be it jacketed or plated and it has performed in many cases better than any other bullet I have shot.

If anyone is willing to buy me some berry's bullets and send them to me, I will video tape as well as take pictures of my results comparing the exact same loads from berry's and post the results. If powerbond bullets fail to out perform the Berry's then I will publicly state that I was wrong. In fact I will post the results on my own website where I try to sell powerbond bullets. Any takers?

[Sevens]

Also, if you love berry's enough to compare them to your wife then you need help (or a better wife).

Just for the sake of clarity, I believe the author was comparing them to YOUR wife.

[Longdayjake]

Just for the sake of clarity, I believe the author was comparing them to YOUR wife.

No, he said that another way I could write it would be.....

So if I was writing it then it would be about someones wife other than my own.

[TRguy]

I am not talking about ANYBODY'S wife. It was an analogy. A rewrite of the original quoted statement, showing lack of validity of the original point.

[Longdayjake]

If anyone is willing to buy me some berry's bullets and send them to me, I will video tape as well as take pictures of my results comparing the exact same loads from berry's and post the results. If powerbond bullets fail to out perform the Berry's then I will publicly state that I was wrong. In fact I will post the results on my own website where I try to sell powerbond bullets. Any takers?

Okay, I just called a buddy of mine that has some berry's. Looks like we are in business. You guys can expect a new thread in a couple of days. Deer season starts on Saturday so you will have to give me some time to do it right.

I am not talking about ANYBODY'S wife. It was an analogy. A rewrite of the original quoted statement, showing lack of validity of the original point.

Yeah we know. Were are just messin around.

[leftsideshooter]

Geeeez Guy's, guess I opened a new can of worms!

[floydster]

Well, I shoot Berry's plated (have shot) in my 9mm, 38 Super , 38 Spl, 357 mag., 45ACP and 40 cal. and I must say I get much better results with my hard cast bullets.
So, I no longer shoot plated bullets of any kind, waste of money in my opinion.
I love shooting cast.
Smokeyloads

[Longdayjake]

So, I no longer shoot plated bullets of any kind, waste of money in my opinion.

Ah, my number one reason for not liking berry's. People give up on powerbond because they think that all plated bullets are identical to berrys.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

If you want the best possible bullet you can shoot through your gun...then start casting your own bullets.

[Dave R]

I have heard a lot of bad things about berry's. Most specifically that the plating is brittle and can't be crimped. I have also heard that they are not very uniform.

I have never crimped Berry's bullets, so I dunno about that. And I have never driven them at magnum velocities.

But I have shot many hundreds of them in 9mm, .380acp and .45acp and they work great in those applications.

I have never seen a problem with uniformity. Accuracy, load-ability and performance have been great.

[langenc]

""For that reason I sell powerbond bullets. They are not to be compared in quality. I have customers reporting their best groups ever with powerbond. Their plating is thicker and softer so it can be crimped without problems. I shoot their .357 bullets at hot magnum velocities with GREAT results. ""


I only read to this quote.

Berry dose NOT recommend 357 Mag velocities w/ their bullets. 38 velocities yes. I expect their website will state the above..

[rjrivero]

I don't know about Berry's. I've been shooting Rainiers for about 18 years. The indoor ranges that I shot back then didn't allow for lead bullets. I've shot thousands of .45 and 9mm. I have no complaints at all with them. I load them to lead cast bullet specs and have not been disappointed yet.

[paralaska]

I've had excellent accuracy (25 yd, 1 1/2" groups) using the Berrys 185gr HBRN using 6.9gr of True Blue with an AOL of 1.26.