September 16, 2008, 12:31 AM | #26 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 6, 2002
Posts: 263
|
Quote:
Properly structured FOF will prove the need for both sighted and point shooting skill sets. I have trained with some of the most highly trained Modern Technique instructors in the business, once we went into FOF they point shot. They know they did and I know they did, because their guns were at least a couple of inches below their line of sight. Training to get to your sights does not mean that you can get to your sights when the action is fast, close, and you are behind in the reactionary curve. It is all situationally dependent. Situations dictate strategy, strategy dictates tactics, tactics dictate techniques.....techniques should not dictate anything."
__________________
"Situations dictate strategy, strategy dictates tactics, tactics dictate techniques.....techniques should not dictate anything." Roger Phillips, Owner and Operator of Fight Focused Concepts |
|
September 16, 2008, 11:30 AM | #27 | ||
Junior member
Join Date: January 24, 2005
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 2,289
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
September 16, 2008, 01:49 PM | #28 |
Member
Join Date: September 16, 2008
Posts: 67
|
This is always a very interesting topic, because it has been going on for ages.
Point shooting is not an accurate means of shooting and will never replace using your sights, but what usually happens (80% of the time) is the person involved in the firefight will begin to point shoot. I believe this happens because when we get into that "life or death" situation, most of our fine-tuned motor reflexes will not work as well. Instead of trying to take the time and concentration to establish a good sight picture, we will want to "speed up" and engage/eliminate the treat as quick as possible. This is normal. Because of that, I believe it would be a good idea to practice point shooting as much as possible. We all can aim a rifle/pistol instinctively to a certain point. If you incorporate some point-shooting training into your normal training regimen, it can only help you become more familiar with your firearm, and give you a better chance of defending if it comes to that. Go to YouTube and type in "Iraq Firefights". Scroll down and watch all the different videos. You'll see that most of the soldier/marines/airmen doing the shooting are point shooting. The reason I say this is you cannot, repeat cannot maintain a proper sight picture when shooting a rifle or pistol in a very rapid manner (i.e. 2-4 rounds a second) unless you devote years and years to training (most of us cannot do this). Good thread, though. I think this is a very important topic to discuss. |
September 16, 2008, 03:43 PM | #29 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2008
Location: Los Angeles, Kalifornia
Posts: 1,176
|
Quote:
from 3 yards away and miss? It is possible to train well enough that one will be able to aim during life and death situations. For example Andrew Jackson was in a duel with a man who was known to be a great shot. Andrew Jackson cheated and wore a moo-moo to the duel. He was shot first, the bullet nicked his heart. Jackson kept his composure and killed the other guy. And how important is competition (such as IDPA) in getting used to high stress situations? I believe point shooting can be valuable but only if you practice it a lot.
__________________
45 ACP: Springfield Armory Loaded 1911 5" barrel 357 magnum: Smith & Wesson 686 6" barrel 9x19: CZ 75B, Glock 17 22lr: Ruger Mk III/45 |
|
September 16, 2008, 03:54 PM | #30 |
Junior member
Join Date: June 7, 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 363
|
How many of those blazing away with "point shooting" have actually been taught how to do it properly?
If the answer is very few then it is not point shooting which is to blame but rather unrealistic training which fails to utilize the body's natural reaction to life or death combat. For the record point shooting is very accurate and can be learned withing an hour or so, if not minutes Anyone who wishes to venture here next week will receive a free how to lesson from me and from 7677. http://www.mlefiaa.org/2008_CONFEREN..._REG_PAGE.html Or how about joining us for this: http://northeastshooters.com/vbullet...ad.php?t=40447 |
September 16, 2008, 04:07 PM | #31 |
Member
Join Date: September 16, 2008
Posts: 67
|
Like I said in my last post, you can train to aim well in high stress, but most people do not have the resources, or the discipline to do so. I think the importance of learning to point shoot decently will fill this gap in competence.
Most self-defense encounters are at very short distances (25 yards or less). At these distances, you can use point shooting to hit your target. I'm not talking about putting 5 rounds into a .5 inch hole, but I'm talking about enough accuracy to hit center of mass of a human sized target. Statistics would confirm that most people (including highly trained military) do not use their sights during the first crucial moments of an engagement. This is one of the things that the US military is always trying to overcome. Point shooting is something that requires a little less fine motor skills, and is something that can be used at reasonable ranges. I will also say that training to properly use sights is very, very, very important and should not be replaced by point shooting for any reason. Just train both ways, instead. All in all, we all have out own opinions, but I say why not learn other shooting techniques? It will only help develop your skills, and will increase your knowledge of the shooting world in general. |
September 16, 2008, 04:11 PM | #32 |
Junior member
Join Date: June 7, 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 363
|
SGT-Miller
No one who I have researched says that point shooting is designed to replace aimed fire. It is meant to complement it. However, quite a few have stated that sights should always be used--Paul Howe, in fact, has written that sights should be used from 0-300 yards. Here is a link to my home study course for those who wish to explore this topic on their own. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=391040 |
September 16, 2008, 04:27 PM | #33 |
Member
Join Date: September 16, 2008
Posts: 67
|
Thanks for the link.
|
September 16, 2008, 05:11 PM | #34 |
Junior member
Join Date: June 7, 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 363
|
Roger that.
Any questions feel free to give me a shout. |
September 17, 2008, 02:59 PM | #35 | |
Junior member
Join Date: January 24, 2005
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 2,289
|
Quote:
|
|
September 17, 2008, 05:10 PM | #36 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 4,453
|
Quote:
Always keep in mind, no matter how hard you train, how well you train, or whatever you train in.... nothing is a 100 percent guarantee. You might fall appart, or stand fast, or something in between. The training gives you skills and confidence, and many a time that combination pulls one through.
__________________
“To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides |
|
|
|