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Old April 15, 2019, 10:59 AM   #26
Lohman446
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While I appreciate the recoil comparison I am not certain a Blackhawk is a meaningful comparison to the J frame sized .38 / .357. Entirely different uses. Could be I am recoil sensitive but I shudder when I think about lighting off more than a round or two of .357 in an ultrailight gun just for kicks.
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Old April 15, 2019, 11:59 AM   #27
T. O'Heir
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Because people buy 'em. Simple as that.
A 1,211 pixel picture is too big.
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Old April 15, 2019, 12:09 PM   #28
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Quote:
you can load any .357 with the lower powered .38 spl so why have a .38 spl version of the very same .357 magnum gun?
One reason is the buildup of debris in the .357 cyclinder compared to the .38 Spl. Another, although you stated snubbies and although others have not found the same to be true in their experience, in my K-38's (yes plural, I have two), shooting .38 Special cases in my .357 Magnums with very light loads, the shorter .38's did not produce as good accuracy as the longer .357 cases. Therefore, although I can shoot .38's in my .357's, I do not.
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Old April 15, 2019, 12:25 PM   #29
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A 1,211 pixel picture is too big.
You have a small computer screen!LOL
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Old April 15, 2019, 12:45 PM   #30
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I'm not sure if it makes a difference to the discussion. I would not hesitate to buy a 38 special scandium framed revolver USED. I would be very hesitant to buy a 357 one used.

Last edited by Lohman446; April 15, 2019 at 12:54 PM.
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Old April 15, 2019, 03:16 PM   #31
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From the OP.

Quote:
why the 64 when there is the 65?

why the 642 when there is the 340?
I have a model 65 that i carried loaded with full power 357 loads and decided to shoot them off at a friends house since everyone else was shooting. I had forgotten what a blaster full power 357s were.

When I loaded that gun back up I put 38 specials in it. Not the weaker +P stuff but the Real 38 special loads like were available before 38+P was the fad. That was much better and should work just fine for my uses. I would be just fine with it if that model 65 were a model 64 instead.

I have a 442 no lock and a 637 and 38s are good enough for those. If I want to shoot a 357 from a snub I have a nice SP-101.

I will buy any 38 Special only gun I run across if the price is right. I wish I could find a decent model 10 with skinny 4" barrel or another model 15. The model 15 may be the best 38 Special ever made.
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Old April 15, 2019, 03:19 PM   #32
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Because for every buyer that's on the 357 bandwagon, there is at least one who is firmly in the 38 camp.
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Old April 15, 2019, 03:58 PM   #33
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Because people buy 'em. Simple as that.
Yeah that pretty much sums it up. I bought a 38 Spcl. 642 and never wished it was a 357 MAG. I have no desire to own or fire any "airweight" with 357 loads.

I have fired thousands of 357 rounds through the years but the lightest gun being an all steel K-Frame Smith 66 snub.
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Old April 15, 2019, 04:42 PM   #34
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Just my oplnlon but I think with the new offerings in ammunition that the 38spl. Is practical more than ever and even more so in +p.
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Old April 15, 2019, 05:56 PM   #35
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I’ve carried a steel 38 special snobby for over 30 years and I’m dammm accurate with it..
No sights, custom made shoulder holster.. I can skin that thing faster than a raped rattlesnake. Enough of this SA questions. And this one from a Senior member with over 2,000 posts. Is he just joshin’ us?
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Old April 15, 2019, 06:02 PM   #36
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A better question is why is there a lightweight .357?
Only a few will actually practice with it..unless of course they are into pain.
As other have said practicing with 38 cal. but loading .357 for carry is ridiculous.
One shot and you will realize how stupid of an idea that was.
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Old April 15, 2019, 06:03 PM   #37
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I don’t think the 357 is better 38. I’d rather take the weight and cost savings going 38 only
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Old April 15, 2019, 06:56 PM   #38
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I see a few folks have misread what I asked. at no time did I say that you had to shoot .357 rounds.
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Old April 15, 2019, 09:09 PM   #39
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People like 38 special. People buy 38 special, so people make 38 special. I have learned over the years that folks have their reasons for buying what they buy. If I agree or I disagree it doesn't matter because they have their reasons and I don't worry or concern myself with it.
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Old April 16, 2019, 12:58 AM   #40
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I think Jerrys deserves some credit for keeping his cool, remaining polite, and restating (again and again) the gist of his original post. I also think the first four or five posts pretty much nailed it.
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Old April 16, 2019, 11:07 AM   #41
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To summarize: in order to maximize profits.

Marketing will produce a graph with cost on the x axis (dependent variable) and sales on the y axis (independent variable.) Simplistically, more people buy cheap guns than expensive ones.

Profit per gun is the price subtract the cost to manufacture. A general rule of thumb is that you must charge 5-7 times the cost of the parts just to break even. Saving cost of production is critical in manufacturing. Consider the cost of the semi-custom firearms: does a Freedom Arms or Korth compromise anywhere? If they do, I don’t see it.

Total profit to the company is the profit per unit at the cost sold multiplied by the number of units sold at that price. Very simplistically, the shape of the total profit curve looks like an upside down parabola, something like the shape a thrown baseball makes.

If S&W sells a j-frame at the cost it takes them to produce and support it, they will sell lots of them. But they won’t make any profit.

Likewise, they can try to sell that j-frame for $3,000 but they will sell scarcely any. They won’t make much profit.

If they determine the price that is attractive to consumers and also a price where the profit per gun multiplied by the number of sales is maximized, the company maximizes profit.

It is much less expensive to produce a gun with a lower pressure cartridge. Cost.

The .357s May use titanium cylinders and special frames to resist stretch and flame cutting.

The companies are betting that they can not sell enough expensive guns to maximize profits.

Let’s face it, many of us are weirdos. I am more than a little tempted to buy another Freedom Arms. I am thinking a little one with in .327 with a matching .32-20 cylinder would be pretty nifty as it would be rare and knowing FA, more accurate than a lever action carbine. There is a little room in the market for super expensive and tiny number of sales.

Hi-point. Let’s not pick on Hi-point. Their model is to make very inexpensive guns and sell lots of them. Then everyone else in between, trying to carve out their own little market.

I want a .327 revolver that is trim, light weight, and accurate like an old Smith target gun. Say.. 4 inch barrel. I want to pay $450 for it.

We had this discussion “what is important to you when buying a gun” and I felt people refused to accept that cost was a major determining factor. Sorting gun sales by volume on the Bud’s Gun, Cabela’s and Gander websites you can see it: people buy a lot of cheap guns. Stuff I would not buy, but I am not the average market.

So.. I can’t get exactly what I want for the price I want to pay.

A company can struggle to meet my individual need, or they can launch a campaign to change my mind about what I want. So much marketing.

I feel for them. It’s a tough business. Someone is selling an old Colt in 32 long with a 4” barrel for about $450 near me, it was made in 1917. I am tempted but I don’t know much about colts.

Maybe I should buy a single seven and hope I get one that really shoots. I expect it will be tougher and tougher to get one in the future. Send it to someone to have it accurized, maybe... but there goes another thousand dollars and I’ll be in a nursing home before I could find someone resell it to such that me heirs only lose a thousand on the deal.

So realistically... I think I see a trend to .380 auto. I like .380, I liked the ones I had. Maybe a single stack 9. I want small, light, and as accurate as a .22. Let’s face it, a .380 can be designed just like a blowback .22 and it’s really hard to make a semi auto .22 that is not 1/4 minute of squirrel. But maybe a blowback 9mm? Marketing really got behind the 9mm and because so many are produced, the costs drop due to mass production...

Bottom line is... profits. And realistically, I have to fight my cheapskate nature.
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Old April 16, 2019, 01:05 PM   #42
Lohman446
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Sell .38 Special for $500. Sell .357 variant for $800. Many of the people who buy the .38 special will be tempted to "upgrade" later to the .357 variant. Sold two guns
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Old April 16, 2019, 03:13 PM   #43
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Many people like the weight and feel of the 642. The 340 is much lighter due to titanium and scandium and more expensive, plus is has a shrouded barrel. All of which many of us don't like or want. Cost is the biggest issue. People like the 64 and the 65, mostly we like the older ones without the locks and 2 piece barrels.

Why do car manufacturers offer more than one engine? Because people buy them!
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Old April 16, 2019, 03:31 PM   #44
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Too many have listened to the .38 spl being disparaged and taken it to heart. Truth is, the .38 spl and the revolvers built for it are all that many shooters actually need. I have .38 spl and .357 mag; and while their purposes overlap to an extent, there are reasons/needs for both to exist. I shoot a lot of .38 spl and only occasionally .357 mag. For instance, the .357 is what I use to hunt deer, the .38 is my home s-d tool. Also when I go "woods roaming" with no particular activity in mind, either a .22LR or a .38 is by my side. Other than the .45 Colt & .45 acp, which get carried occasionally, it's the first two I depend on. Legendary NY cop, Jim Cirillo (sp) once killed 5 robber/hostage takers with 6 .38 spl shots from a standard .38 revolver. Why only 5 with 6 shots? Well, he shot one of them twice. The gunfight lasted only a few seconds.
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Old April 16, 2019, 04:27 PM   #45
Bill DeShivs
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Bill Jordan said that the .38 Special is the most powerful cartridge that most people can handle.
He was right.
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Old April 16, 2019, 06:06 PM   #46
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let me repackage this for those that still don't understand.... if gas mileage et cetera et cetera was the same why buy a 6 cyl. car when you can buy the 8 cyl.?
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Old April 16, 2019, 06:23 PM   #47
Lohman446
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GOING with your analogy. Let’s say you have two trucks. One can haul 1200lbs and one can haul 1700lbs. if you haul 1700lbs consistently maintenance will go up dramatically and life will go down. You only ever haul 1000lbs. By the way the one that can haul 1700 costs 40 to 50 percent more. Which one you choosing?
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Old April 16, 2019, 07:03 PM   #48
JERRYS.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lohman446 View Post
GOING with your analogy. Let’s say you have two trucks. One can haul 1200lbs and one can haul 1700lbs. if you haul 1700lbs consistently maintenance will go up dramatically and life will go down. You only ever haul 1000lbs. By the way the one that can haul 1700 costs 40 to 50 percent more. Which one you choosing?
I'd take the one that could haul 1,700 lbs. and only haul 1,200 lbs. regularly but still have the ability to do more when I want. why would I limit myself?

does the LCR 357 cost 40-50 percent more than the LCR 38?
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Old April 16, 2019, 09:11 PM   #49
Bill DeShivs
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Because some people just don't want a .357 handgun. I'm one of them. The .357 doesn't really shine until you use it with a 6"+ barrel. It's a violent, noisy cartridge.
More/bigger/louder is not necessarily better. Most Americans can't figure that out, though.
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Old April 16, 2019, 09:15 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs View Post
Because some people just don't want a .357 handgun. I'm one of them. The .357 doesn't really shine until you use it with a 6"+ barrel. It's a violent, noisy cartridge.
More/bigger/louder is not necessarily better. Most Americans can't figure that out, though.
What is your criteria for "shine" that requires a 6" barrel but doesn't cut it in a 4" barrel?
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