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Old February 23, 2021, 09:35 AM   #51
ligonierbill
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I don't usually join magnum basher threads, but I had to look up Phil Shoemaker. According to an article in Guns magazine, his daughter Tia has followed in his footsteps. The article pictures her with a very big bear and her "old" rifle, a 375 Ruger. Also shows her new rifle, a Model 70 that her dad gave her and she customized. This one is in 416 Remington Magnum, modified to make it handier in the thick stuff and lighter to carry all day (8 lb!). She loads (or her Dad does for her) Barnes 300 TSX.

That was particularly interesting to me, as I started developing a load for this bullet last fall. From my 24" M70, the start load goes 2,677/4.6 Std and delivers excellent accuracy. Tia's custom carries a 21" barrel, and the article did not mention it's ballistics. Max load in mine should go about 2,800.
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Old February 23, 2021, 12:14 PM   #52
eastbank
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there are varified accounts of bears killing hunters on kodeack iland while gutting deer they shot.
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Old February 23, 2021, 05:28 PM   #53
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I have been to Alaska. In a department store they had a full life size Grizzly taxidermy mount. It stood 8 feet tall and looked to weighed a half ton.
I have hiked in Alaska with my wildlife biologist brother, and when he got a whiff of severe bear stink-ass, we made a tactical retreat. Even in Northern California, 30-06 or bigger is a necessay hikung item, and those are for black bear.
Sure, you can kill an elephant with 30-06, if you shoot it enough times. But in heavy brush, against an unsuspected goliathian creature, you may only get one shot, or become bear poo poo. Any first aid will be hours away.
Savage makes a short barreled stainless steel guide gun with iron sights in a couple of calibers 338 , 375 Ruger. Take a tip from the boy scouts and Be prepared.
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Old February 23, 2021, 10:29 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastbank
what it tells me is that any of the calibers shown with proper bullets will kill them if the shot is placed right.
It was just to show that other cartridges than the 6.5X55 are being used in Sweden and other Scandinavian countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranrab
Guide Phil Shoemaker often uses a 30-06 as his rifle to back up clients. With a heavy Partition, it will solve problems.
While I'll agree Phil Shoemaker is a big proponent of the .30-06 being big bear capable, I don't think it is his cartridge of choice anymore. He's used a lot of different cartridges over the years but I think from what I've read he has used the .458 Win Mag the most.
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Old February 24, 2021, 06:35 AM   #55
Dranrab
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"there are varified accounts of bears killing hunters on kodeack iland while gutting deer they shot."

I was involved in several dozen kills when I was there. It never happened to me. I spoke with a lot of people who had lived and hunted the Island for many years. I never met anyone it happened to. It's mostly urban legend. Certainly not common. Bears tend to learn that being near people with guns is bad for their health.
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Old February 24, 2021, 07:15 AM   #56
stagpanther
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The article pictures her with a very big bear and her "old" rifle, a 375 Ruger.
Gal who shoots a 375 ruger is not one to argue with!
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Old February 24, 2021, 02:11 PM   #57
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Urban legend

I'm going to politely disagree with you Danrab.

In Montana this is not considered an urban legend. It's been awhile since I actually read about this. I had heard associates talking about Grizzly bears beating hunters to their kill.

It was 2008, when there were 8 reports of hunters attacked by grizzly. One of these was the Deputy Director of the Department of Parks, Wildlife and Fisheries. All were injured, but there was only one fatality. Only the presence of other hunters nearby prevented this from being worse.

I agree that most animals in the wild, subject to hunting pressure will flee at the sound of gunfire. A very experienced and colorful associate said he believed that Montana grizzly were meaner and more dangerous than Alaskan grizzly because our grizzly didn't have big ol' juicy salmon jumping into their mouths. But rather had to roll a thousand pound boulder to get a handful of bugs and if they were lucky a mouse.

I have to believe that the Grizzly bear considers itself the top of the food chain, and it only takes a step back to a larger bear. If it weren't for modern firearms or an organized hunting parties with lances and such, humans would be helpless before them.

So, in the bears mind if fresh meat falls dead before them it's theirs. I think everyone will agree that grizzlies will attack immediately if their young are threatened, or you interrupt their meal.

Apparently these bear in Montana have been conditioned to respond to the sound of gunfire. I have a feeling that they would hear gunfire, then just stumble on the gut pile and get an easy meal. Bears are said to learn fast. If the bear comes upon the kill first it's his.

I am more of a shooter than a hunter. The hunting that I have done, I did with a 300WBY. I only hunted mule deer and had excellent success. I never had to track an animal or take a second shot. I was alone and unaware then of any bear threat other than random contact. I also carried a stainless Super Blackhawk, 44mag. Mainly for comfort, I guess, because if a 30-06 isn't suitable to stop a charge, a 44mag isn't going to do it either. It is said by some that a 300WBY will stop a charge if you can calmly make a kill shot at a charging bear.

I'm curious if anyone else considers inland bears more dangerous than those lazy fat bears chillin' in a stream waiting for a nice juicy salmon to leap into his mouth.
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Old February 26, 2021, 04:19 PM   #58
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Quote:
there are varified accounts of bears killing hunters on kodeack iland while gutting deer they shot.
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There are accounts of Grizzly bears taking a kill away from a hunter, none I know of where the hunter was attacked or killed. Smart hunters walk away.

All accounts I know of that came on sudden, the shooter missed or dropped his gun.


Quote:
I have to believe that the Grizzly bear considers itself the top of the food chain, and it only takes a step back to a larger bear. If it weren't for modern firearms or an organized hunting parties with lances and such, humans would be helpless before them.
A Grizzly bear does not consider anything, its a walking mound of instinct and reflexes that react to any given situation. When small they run, when full size they fight with other bears and are predatory.

Louis and Clark has a number of encounters with Grizzly bears and they survived, the Native Americans thrived in that environment before there were guns.

The reason guides are successful. with clients is they hunt the bear and shoot it from a distance.

You stand no chance of aiming let alone a good shot against one that charges you out of the bush. None, nada, zip. Hunters have zero experience with a charge let alone controlling a gun correctly during one (African hunters tend do have some and the PI always)

Equally your best chance is to play dead (see caveat) or bear spray.

Its amazing how expert people are who never have been to Alaska let alone lived in or hunted and camped in the boonies.

All Grizzly bears are equally dangerous be they interior or exterior. There are NO FISH 8 months of the year (maybe 9 even).

The only thing that will stop a Grizzly in its tracks is a 20 mm cannot. A 50 cal would do it if you are behind armor.

A 300 WBY has zero improvement over an 06 at 050 yards. The bullet might make a difference if it penetrates and or breaks down a limb bone.

Surveying we carried shotguns (if anything, surveyed 99% time without one). The idea was 4 load of 00 Buck to shred its head (remove sensory apparatus ) one slug to kill it one it was pinned in position (even if that was not fast)

Been there, done that, got a T shirt every day, year in year out so I have boxes of them for 66 years. Never had a Grizzly encounter. Seen them, yep. They went their way and I went mine.
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