Ammo Background Checks in CA - Page 3

Metal god · August 16, 2019, 12:24 PM

44 AMP is correct but will add there is a fee from the local vendor to except and store your ammo until you pick it up . Those fees change from store to store but generally it makes your online cost savings a lot less and in some cases it would actually cost you more .

It’s really not in the vendors best interest to except out of state orders rather then sell you there ammo . Some make it completely not worth ordering online while others make it barely worth it to the point of why bother . I’m sure there are some vendors helping us out but they’re not easy to find or not in your area .

Metal god · August 16, 2019, 02:25 PM

I'm going to the hearing on the motion for preliminary injunction with my buddy on Monday , I'll update after .

JDBerg · August 16, 2019, 03:13 PM

Quote:

I am not in California and have not followed this issue closely

CYB = Count Yer Blessings!

Quote:

...but I am curious about the requirements for dealing with an internet order or mail order of ammo shipped to a buyer in CA from an out of state retailer.

I think the ammo has to ship to a CA FFL, then you have to show up at the FFL in person to complete the eligibility check, then you haul your ammo home. I’m almost sure the FFL will probably charge an admin fee over the cost of the eligibility check.

Metal god · August 19, 2019, 02:51 PM

Don’t want to jinx it , at lunch recess right now but it’s looking good for our side . This judge really knows his stuff . FWIW he’s the same judge that blocked the mag restrictions a short time ago . Fingers crossed

Metal god · August 19, 2019, 05:39 PM

Ok just got done I was there all day , wish I had brought a note pad , lots of things talked about in there .

Short version is our side believes there are to many rejections in the system ( 10,000+) in July with only 106 of those actually being prohibited persons . Something like 18% rejections in July . So we are saying this system is over burdensome to the general public . It is denying far to many who other wise should not be denied while only preventing very few that are actually prohibited persons .

The state is claiming those 10k+ were simple mistakes that can easily be fixed . Things like mismatching addresses because you moved . didn't know you were not in the system yet or clerical errors . which they claim are all easy fixes .

Our side said fixing 10k+ mistakes when the government is involved is never an easy fix and it still takes hours to days to resolve . This is putting an undo burden on law abiding citizens .

In the end the judge put his ruling on hold for 30 to 60 days so the state can produce a list of all 10k+ denials and why each was denied . He is having a hard time excepting you can be denied and not know why or how to fix it right away . It appears he's looking to see if the system is fixable , broken or just not well designed .

On a side note , Right at the beginning the state conceded if you were from out of state visiting for hunting or what ever you can just have a friend who is a CA resident buy you some ammo or you can give that friend the money to buy you ammo and that was all legal . Which the judge just shook his head in disbelief because the state just said it's OK to do straw purchases in the state of CA . I mean we all just sat there with are mouths open , Did the state just lob one up to be hit out of the park . I thought case closed right there but it went on for another 2 hours .

Anyways very interesting , The first part of the day was looking good for us . The judge was challenging the state with some very good questions that they did not have great answers for . The state did come around later with some good counter punches after lunch . Our guy did some good work in there and I'd like to thank him for that . We talked with him at lunch and after and he seemed optimistic and thinks the judge is leaning are way but believes the judge wants to be clear the system is not working before making his ruling .

The judge seemed concerned that the law was not equal to out of state vendors when they were talking commerce clause . Sure Walmart and Dicks have stores in CA but other vendors out of state do not . He seemed to be saying he didn't think it was fare CA was mandating if you sold a product to a CA resident . You as the business owner had to have a store in CA to do so .

He also brought up the face to face part of the law . He asked the state " with all the technology out there today why can't we just skype or facetime with the store to prove we are who we say we are" . Something like having your face on the camera/screen and hold up your photo ID to prove you are who you claim to be ? The state countered that pretty good giving the example of that would not work buying alcohol , you can't just facetime with the store and have them deliver you beer , there still needs to be a face to face check on that .

Anyways like I said there was a lot of things debated in there and I can't remember everything off the top of my head . Feel free to ask questions , maybe they will bring back some of my memory's lol

**Aguila Blanca** · August 19, 2019, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal god

He also brought up the face to face part of the law . He asked the state " with all the technology out there today why can't we just skype or facetime with the store to prove we are who we say we are" . Something like having your face on the camera/screen and hold up your photo ID to prove you are who you claim to be ? The state countered that pretty good giving the example of that would not work buying alcohol , you can't just facetime with the store and have them deliver you beer there still needs to be a face to face check on that .

Same question, though: "Why?" Why can't you facetime to the local grog shop, have your face matched to your ID, and have a case of beer sent over to your stupidbowl party? The stat'e answer isn't an answer; it seems to me a lot like, "Because I'm the mommy and I said so."

Metal god · August 19, 2019, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Same question, though: "Why?" Why can't you facetime to the local grog shop, have your face matched to your ID, and have a case of beer sent over to your stupidbowl party? The state answer isn't an answer; it seems to me a lot like, "Because I'm the mommy and I said so."

As far as I can tell it's a valid argument . Yes you can have beer and wine delivered to your home but you still must show ID to take possession so in all intensive purposes it's a face to face transaction . throw in a background check and it gets even a little more difficult . Don't get me wrong , I like the idea but I do see the states point .

August 16, 2019, 12:24 PM	#51
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	44 AMP is correct but will add there is a fee from the local vendor to except and store your ammo until you pick it up . Those fees change from store to store but generally it makes your online cost savings a lot less and in some cases it would actually cost you more . It’s really not in the vendors best interest to except out of state orders rather then sell you there ammo . Some make it completely not worth ordering online while others make it barely worth it to the point of why bother . I’m sure there are some vendors helping us out but they’re not easy to find or not in your area . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

August 16, 2019, 02:25 PM	#52
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	I'm going to the hearing on the motion for preliminary injunction with my buddy on Monday , I'll update after . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

August 19, 2019, 02:51 PM	#54
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	Don’t want to jinx it , at lunch recess right now but it’s looking good for our side . This judge really knows his stuff . FWIW he’s the same judge that blocked the mag restrictions a short time ago . Fingers crossed __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; August 19, 2019 at 05:14 PM.

August 19, 2019, 05:39 PM	#55
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	Ok just got done I was there all day , wish I had brought a note pad , lots of things talked about in there . Short version is our side believes there are to many rejections in the system ( 10,000+) in July with only 106 of those actually being prohibited persons . Something like 18% rejections in July . So we are saying this system is over burdensome to the general public . It is denying far to many who other wise should not be denied while only preventing very few that are actually prohibited persons . The state is claiming those 10k+ were simple mistakes that can easily be fixed . Things like mismatching addresses because you moved . didn't know you were not in the system yet or clerical errors . which they claim are all easy fixes . Our side said fixing 10k+ mistakes when the government is involved is never an easy fix and it still takes hours to days to resolve . This is putting an undo burden on law abiding citizens . In the end the judge put his ruling on hold for 30 to 60 days so the state can produce a list of all 10k+ denials and why each was denied . He is having a hard time excepting you can be denied and not know why or how to fix it right away . It appears he's looking to see if the system is fixable , broken or just not well designed . On a side note , Right at the beginning the state conceded if you were from out of state visiting for hunting or what ever you can just have a friend who is a CA resident buy you some ammo or you can give that friend the money to buy you ammo and that was all legal . Which the judge just shook his head in disbelief because the state just said it's OK to do straw purchases in the state of CA . I mean we all just sat there with are mouths open , Did the state just lob one up to be hit out of the park . I thought case closed right there but it went on for another 2 hours . Anyways very interesting , The first part of the day was looking good for us . The judge was challenging the state with some very good questions that they did not have great answers for . The state did come around later with some good counter punches after lunch . Our guy did some good work in there and I'd like to thank him for that . We talked with him at lunch and after and he seemed optimistic and thinks the judge is leaning are way but believes the judge wants to be clear the system is not working before making his ruling . The judge seemed concerned that the law was not equal to out of state vendors when they were talking commerce clause . Sure Walmart and Dicks have stores in CA but other vendors out of state do not . He seemed to be saying he didn't think it was fare CA was mandating if you sold a product to a CA resident . You as the business owner had to have a store in CA to do so . He also brought up the face to face part of the law . He asked the state " with all the technology out there today why can't we just skype or facetime with the store to prove we are who we say we are" . Something like having your face on the camera/screen and hold up your photo ID to prove you are who you claim to be ? The state countered that pretty good giving the example of that would not work buying alcohol , you can't just facetime with the store and have them deliver you beer , there still needs to be a face to face check on that . Anyways like I said there was a lot of things debated in there and I can't remember everything off the top of my head . Feel free to ask questions , maybe they will bring back some of my memory's lol __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; August 19, 2019 at 08:06 PM.